What would you have done?

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memyselfandI

memyselfandI

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Hampton Roads, Virginia
I have a question. I was called to a residence by a real estate agent who said the tenant had a fire in the house. Thinking the worst, I went to the place and found that the fart fan in the bathroom had caught fire. The fire was in an area about the size of a serving platter for a party, about 12"X18". The fire department was called and they turned the main breaker off at the panel and place a tag on the panel. To summarize what the tag said is " power cannot be restored until the defect or equipment has been repaired. Some local authorities may require a permit and inspection prior to the removal of this tag." I also noticed on the tag that they were unable to isolate the circuit. It just so happens that the circuit breaker that was tripped in front of them was the one that was feeding the bathroom lights. So I researched the problem and removed the damaged piece of equipment and noticed that there were other wires in the attic that IMO were not safe. They were not in the circuit that was in question, but I couldn't sleep well knowing I left that in the attic in the condition that it was in. I repaired the wires and restored power to the unit. I was required to obtain a permit to replace the fan. After obtaining the permit I replaced the fan and called it in for an inspection. The chief inspector called me and said that he knew that I had did the work, but that I was to contact the fire department so they could inspect it to restore power. Now don't get me wrong and God bless every firefighter out there, but one problem that I have with this is that if power restoration was a concern, then why wasn't the meter pulled? As a licensed and insured electrical contractor, IMO I believe that I am qualified to determine whether a circuit that was damaged in a fire, and after all the appropriate measure were taken to repair the problem, can be restored at my discretion and I accept full the responsability. I never removed the tag either.
I spoke with another inspector in another city and he said that in his opinion he didn't see a problem with me restoring the power because I am licensed and I took responsability when I restored power. He said that if there was a concern that the fire department would have pulled the meter so that it was impossible to restore the power without it being cleared by the city.
Here is my question. Did I overstep my boundries in restoring the power? What would any one of you had done, especially you people who live in the South where the heat is a problem? I appreciate any feedback
 
Where authority and responsibility lay in different municipalities is always different. That is why we see "ask the AHJ" so often here.

In our jurisdiction, if you pulled a permit, did the work, had an inspection, the inspection company would notify the necessary people, and the power would be restored. If the meter was not removed, than I am pretty sure that your restoring the power would not be an issue. But... ask the local AHJ. ;)
 
When you got it inspected, and realized the Fire Marshall needed to see it too, how did they respond to you turning the power back on?

I don't think you did anything wrong, IMO.

In the past, I worked on a lumber mill that had a small fire out on the equipment for dust removal. The BC conductors for the 100 HP motor had to be replaced due to fire damage. Since the fire department was called out for the fire, they red-tagged the building and required the dust collection system be repaired before resuming work.

They didn't disconnect the building, they simply ordered all the workers out until the building was safe to work in again, and met their approval. I don't think city inspections even were conducted, it was all through the fire department. I believe the fire department had the owners lock out the damaged equipment until it was repaired.

If the fire department had never been called, chances are the equipment would have been serviced by the electricians and returned to operation without any red tape at all, which doesn't strike me as an underhanded deal either, IMO. Edit: It might have called for a permit, I don't really know. I was not the guy in charge, just a mushroom. :)

I'd say, if anything, you should have contacted the fire department to get the guidelines for what they wanted to see prior to beginning work. With city inspections, it is a routine we don't have to think about. Fire department inspections are not routine, and could have different procedures you probably should have checked into before starting. I wouldn't say you did anything wrong, maybe just didn't do things 100% by the book "right." :)
 
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I will probably get a nasty lecture from the inspector. Put this one up for experience. I just didn't want to get into a tit for tat on who has jurisdiction in this matter. The city or the fire department. Each one will tell me that they have authority in this matter over the other. Funny thing is the inspector calls the agent to have me call him. This was at 4:30. I returned his call at 4:31 and he was GONE. I guess they don't want to do no more than they have to, you know being a public employee and all. Thanks for the feedback. I look forward to more of them here shortly.
 
Out here in my neck of the woods the fire dept shuts off the main if they have a concern. We go out and fix the problem, restore power and let the authorities know what we did. If they aren't happy we have a "prayer meeting" laterto discuss it. They usually trust our judgement.
 
bkludecke said:
Out here in my neck of the woods the fire dept shuts off the main if they have a concern. We go out and fix the problem, restore power and let the authorities know what we did. If they aren't happy we have a "prayer meeting" laterto discuss it. They usually trust our judgement.
Click to expand...

I'm with Bob here. I'm not sure why common sence is a problem in a lot of situations anymore, but I just try to use mine, and sooth egos later when needed.
 
I don't think you did anything wrong. I don't see where there were instructions for circuit not to be energized except by ahj. Unless I missed something.
 
Sounds like a paperwork problem to me. The AJH inspector had his paper work finished but the fire marshal had loose ends out there. Maybe a phone call to the fire marshal would have closed out his ticket and everything would have been fine. Here the electrical inspector is the fire inspector so we don't have that problem, well except for the poco being held hostage by the AHJ, but that's another story.
I'm with turning on the power after the inspector OK's the job THEN getting the fire marshal. Might have to eat a bit of crow but the customer comes first.
 
I don't see where you did anything wrong. What I'm wondering is, How does the fire department inspect an electrical installation? I wouldn't be too keen on being subjected to an inspection by someone who is not an electrical inspector, who, by state law, must have at least a journeyman license.

I can see them tagging a panel and shutting off power when there is a fire, but I think that's where their authority should end. Once the fire is out, the fire department shouldn't have much to say about it. At that point, an EC does the work and gets it inspected the usual way. If the fire was bad, I could see them pulling the meter and handing it over to the PoCo, who would then only reconnect when the AHJ inspector said it was safe to do so.
 
Follow up to my dilema

Follow up to my dilema

Upon contacting the electrical inspector, I asked what the problem was. He asked me who gave me the authority to restore power, to which I answered that the tag specifically said that once the repair was made that power could be restored. He mentioned that I needed a permit to which I said I have one and it is sitting on your desk as we speak, submitted for an inspection so we can close out this permit. I told him because I am a licensed contractor, certified by the state of Virginia, that after repairing the problem and making sure that there was no other damage, I was qualified to make that decision and that I took responsibility for my actions. I aske3d if I had broken any laws to which he said no. I mentioned to him if that the restoration of power was an issue, then why wasn't the meter removed? He had no answer to that question. I meant no disrespect to him or his position, but I feel that all he wanted to do was strut his stuff to make himself feel impotent. I mean important. Little Freudian slip there.
 
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