What's wrong with this picture?

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
Basement

PSX_20210610_140922.jpg
New HVAC plumbing had been installed. Was tracing circuit to eliminate a shorted feed into a room traced to a junction box, was hoping to remove the line from the splices. Found a bunch of others similarly placed
 

epelectric33

Member
Location
SD
Occupation
Electrical Consulting/Inspection/Master
Basement

View attachment 2556830
New HVAC plumbing had been installed. Was tracing circuit to eliminate a shorted feed into a room traced to a junction box, was hoping to remove the line from the splices. Found a bunch of others similarly placed
I cannot tell by the picture for sure but it appears as there are not any cables/conductors going into this J-Box. Is it abandoned?
 

d0nut

Senior Member
Location
Omaha, NE
In a "turnabout is fair play" sort of way, just cut the pipes off to access your junction boxes. Then act surprised when the owner complains, just like the mechanical contractor would if you called him up and told him to move the piping.
 

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
I cannot tell by the picture for sure but it appears as there are not any cables/conductors going into this J-Box. Is it abandoned?
There were some apparently removed before but there is still 4 in from other sides 1 needs to come out for the bad wire.
There are 5 more boxes in similar positions, and 1 light.
PSX_20210610_180657.jpg
There is another 2 j boxes that not only barried like these but also can't even get near it for the placement of heat pumps and and well circulator on floor.
 

d0nut

Senior Member
Location
Omaha, NE
If you replace that LED with a 100W or so incandescent, the situation may resolve itself.

Charge large and make sure the owner knows it came from the HVAC work.
 

epelectric33

Member
Location
SD
Occupation
Electrical Consulting/Inspection/Master
There were some apparently removed before but there is still 4 in from other sides 1 needs to come out for the bad wire.
There are 5 more boxes in similar positions, and 1 light.
View attachment 2556834
There is another 2 j boxes that not only barried like these but also can't even get near it for the placement of heat pumps and and well circulator on floor.
Sooo the light fixture is being used as a form of heat trace....LOL

Is there inspections required where this is at? Thats where I would start (get both the electrical and mechanical out at the same time) to make the mechanical contractor fix or pay for the fix.

Reminds me of the old story about the carpenter and electrician
Electrician watches carpenter pee into the underground electrical conduits.
Electrician waits untill carpenter has a mouth full of nails and tells carpenter "if you will quit pissing into the conduits then I will quit pissing into your box of nails".
 

farmantenna

Member
Location
mass
I frequently encounter this idiotic crap on new jobs. HVAC Installed smoke damper with JB cover against stud. HVAC Installed elevator shaft damper with reverse operation. plumbing pipe above and 12" from electrical panel. on and on
 

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
So I presume by witnessing this installation, that if I was to make this installation as an electrician it would be a violation of 314.29 and 110.26. But it isn't a violation for a plumber to make such installation.
This whole project has been a thorn in the side from first contact. H O contacted GC who contacted me as they wanted me to hook up power for the Environmental company who was installing the geo heat pumps, get there and saw system that appeared way too big for the existing electrical, got load numbers from equipment and for sure it would overshoot the existing by more than 150A. When questioned the geo engineer as to their load calculation for existing system and the added loads, they state it was never done and they never do one. And they've done alot of these systems and never had an issue. Asked about a 4 pump system on a 200A service they said "Well, no." Now trying to get a service upgrade to a 400A. This a very large house and doing a load calc as if new comes in at 168A without the 200A of geo.
 

Knuckle Dragger

Master Electrician Electrical Contractor 01752
Location
Marlborough, Massachusetts USA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Basement

View attachment 2556830
New HVAC plumbing had been installed. Was tracing circuit to eliminate a shorted feed into a room traced to a junction box, was hoping to remove the line from the splices. Found a bunch of others similarly placed
Total butt hole move..

Although cutting the pex or what ever it is called sounds like fun I would and have done so in the past just relocate the clips and pex to access the j-box and leave it that way.
 

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
Total butt hole move..

Although cutting the pex or what ever it is called sounds like fun I would and have done so in the past just relocate the clips and pex to access the j-box and leave it that way.
Not all the pipes were PEX, the ones covered in black wrap are sweated copper pipe and are not just unscrew hanger and swing out of way like the PEX might.
 

Josh111

Member
Location
USA
But it isn't a violation for a plumber to make such installation.

I’m not sure that just because the plumber isn’t an electrician that he’s allowed to violate any other standard. The building code is a building code. The electricians are not allowed to overdrill studs and compromise structural integrity despite that as far as I know the NEC doesn’t say anything about that.

It’s a rather inconsiderate move by the HVAC person but if he wanted to defend himself if it’s flexible piping and you can temporarily pry it out of the way, couldn’t he argue it’s not a violation? They are required to be accessible and not readily accessible.
 
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