What's your number?

[guitarchris]

So I went to look at a remodel and service change for one of my longtime GC's. It's one bedroom, walk in closet, bathroom tearing out one wall (would have to move recs and add switch) and closing in another 2 openings (add 2 recs). I figured wiring in smokes for the other two bedrooms (on opposite end of house) so 5 smokes in all. the service is an 100A feeding an inside 60A main/range/ 4 circuit panel, with 3 or 4 other 220V breakers outside that would go into the new panel. I was planning on going with a 200A 40 circuit meter-panel combo. I threw out a quick $XXXX for the service change, later I ran some numbers and think I can do it for around $300 less and still come out with a decent profit. The wall is open behind the service and all the circuits come in together. I was figuring a ridgid riser and weatherhead through the roof. I left the Arc faults out and included them in the estimate for the remodel, as he wanted a price for the service and one for the remodel. He almost craped his pants when I told him the total for the job. Of course he later told me that he had joe blow come look at it and they could do the service for half of my price. I told him there was no way they would come out on top at that price.

Just checking to see if I'm crazy. BTW, I'm in central NC

 

[guitarchris]

i almost asked for the other EC's number so I could sub jobs out at his price

 

[CopperTone]

So I went to look at a remodel and service change for one of my longtime GC's.

Longtime GC Huh? and he is price shopping you? wouldn't he know about what your price would be by now? My longtime GC's don't question my prices - they know the quality work and reliablity they are getting.

Here is what the GC's usually do in this case - hire the cheaper guy and mark up your price and charge the owner that price. Money stolen right out of your pocket and put into his. Be fair but straight with your GC's - don't get beat up on your prices.

 

[jrannis]

80 man hours,
$2000 in materials

Fill in your labor cost and margin.
Around here:

Man and a boy per hour with a truck $100

45% margin

7,200 (labor)
3,600 (materials)

Total $10,800

Professional
Discount $1,000

Out the door $9,500.00

Desperate times price $8,000.00

 

[Mr. Wizard]

So I went to look at a remodel and service change for one of my longtime GC's. It's one bedroom, walk in closet, bathroom tearing out one wall (would have to move recs and add switch) and closing in another 2 openings (add 2 recs). I figured wiring in smokes for the other two bedrooms (on opposite end of house) so 5 smokes in all. the service is an 100A feeding an inside 60A main/range/ 4 circuit panel, with 3 or 4 other 220V breakers outside that would go into the new panel. I was planning on going with a 200A 40 circuit meter-panel combo. I threw out a quick $XXXX for the service change, later I ran some numbers and think I can do it for around $300 less and still come out with a decent profit. The wall is open behind the service and all the circuits come in together. I was figuring a ridgid riser and weatherhead through the roof. I left the Arc faults out and included them in the estimate for the remodel, as he wanted a price for the service and one for the remodel. He almost craped his pants when I told him the total for the job. Of course he later told me that he had joe blow come look at it and they could do the service for half of my price. I told him there was no way they would come out on top at that price.

Just checking to see if I'm crazy. BTW, I'm in central NC

I threw out a quick $XXXX for the service change, later I ran some numbers and think I can do it for around $300 less and still come out with a decent profit.

Did you give your GC a number, and then tell the GC that you could do it for $300 less? If so, just for future reference, keep that info to yourself :smile:

I left the Arc faults out and included them in the estimate for the remodel, as he wanted a price for the service and one for the remodel.

Around here, if you don't have arc fault breakers in the panel when you call for a service inspection, you won't pass. I would have included that with the service.

Of course he later told me that he had joe blow come look at it and they could do the service for half of my price.

The GC is price shopping, and sounds to me like he got himself a free quote out of the deal. But I would have charged from $3500 to $4000 to do the job you describe, sight unseen. The price would probably be around the $4000+ range if I were to have actually seen the job.

 

[jrannis]

Sorry I missed the location,
For sure Ozark and Appalachian price would be $4,000, good neighbor price $3,500

 

[K8MHZ]

Man and a boy per hour with a truck $100

Wouldn't that equate to 2 man hours per hour for $100?

80 man hours should be around 4 grand, not 8 grand.

Or are you saying that it would take 80 hours for a man and a boy for a total of 160 man hours?

Or, are you saying you actually have one and a half men per hour?

When times get tight, people tend to do more math.

FWIW, I only give free estimates. Bids cost the customer some bucks.

I prefer to work for customers I have had for years as opposed to trying to get (and explain stuff they will never understand) to new ones. So far what has happened over the years is that the old customers are always bringing me new ones and I am not quite smug enough to turn them down!

 

[Rewire]

80 man hours,
$2000 in materials

Fill in your labor cost and margin.
Around here:

Man and a boy per hour with a truck $100

45% margin

7,200 (labor)
3,600 (materials)

Total $10,800

Professional
Discount $1,000

Out the door $9,500.00

Desperate times price $8,000.00

Margin? you have $7,200 in labor but charge $100.00hr for two men and a truck which would be $4,000 then you say $2000 for material and then put down $3600 if you are saying margin but mean markup a 45% markup on $2000 would be $3636.36

If you are taking your labor and material and then marking up at 45% ,
$6000 at 45% would be $10909.90 subtract the $1000 and you get $9909.90

Of course this is Ozark math..

 

[guitarchris]

Walking through the GC asked what I thought the service change would cost, as he had told them if it needed a service upgrade it would add $ to his price. I casually told him around $1500. I found out later that I could do it for $1200, thinking I'm going to be doing him a favor and that he would be pleased that it was less than I said. He said that once I gave he the $1500 est. He had another EC look at it and they could do it for $600. I told him that they would be in the hole at that rate. I think he's bluffing.
My price for the other work is $2800, so a nice $4000 for the whole job. I didn't even ask what the other EC's price for the remodel.

Mr.WIZ, I didn't include the arc's in the service price because if I was only called out to do the service it would have the arc's it was all 220's out there. If the services was already upgraded the breakers would be included with the remodel, so that's how I priced it. It'll will all be done at the same time so the service would be inspected with the rough in for the bedroom, etc...The inspector would use a little common sense, I hope.

This is a GC that our company has worked for 20+ years. He's used to my fathers prices which were too low. I've explained to him that we were previously undercharging and that I have brought our rates up to a fair, competitive number that allows us to actually be in business tomorrow. He's been getting Fillet at ground beef prices. Might be time he starts using cut rate hacks, I'm not going to get beat down to the penny on every job I do for this guy

 

[jrannis]

Wouldn't that equate to 2 man hours per hour for $100?

80 man hours should be around 4 grand, not 8 grand.

Or are you saying that it would take 80 hours for a man and a boy for a total of 160 man hours?

Or, are you saying you actually have one and a half men per hour?

When times get tight, people tend to do more math.

FWIW, I only give free estimates. Bids cost the customer some bucks.

I prefer to work for customers I have had for years as opposed to trying to get (and explain stuff they will never understand) to new ones. So far what has happened over the years is that the old customers are always bringing me new ones and I am not quite smug enough to turn them down!

OOPS!! You are right, I guess I wont get that job

 

[jrannis]

Margin? you have $7,200 in labor but charge $100.00hr for two men and a truck which would be $4,000 then you say $2000 for material and then put down $3600 if you are saying margin but mean markup a 45% markup on $2000 would be $3636.36

If you are taking your labor and material and then marking up at 45% ,
$6000 at 45% would be $10909.90 subtract the $1000 and you get $9909.90

Of course this is Ozark math..

I rounded it off

I doubled the labor

That dern big city math:roll: I did the calculations on the turnpike.

 

[Rewire]

Walking through the GC asked what I thought the service change would cost, as he had told them if it needed a service upgrade it would add $ to his price. I casually told him around $1500. I found out later that I could do it for $1200, thinking I'm going to be doing him a favor and that he would be pleased that it was less than I said. He said that once I gave he the $1500 est. He had another EC look at it and they could do it for $600. I told him that they would be in the hole at that rate. I think he's bluffing.
My price for the other work is $2800, so a nice $4000 for the whole job. I didn't even ask what the other EC's price for the remodel.

Mr.WIZ, I didn't include the arc's in the service price because if I was only called out to do the service it would have the arc's it was all 220's out there. If the services was already upgraded the breakers would be included with the remodel, so that's how I priced it. It'll will all be done at the same time so the service would be inspected with the rough in for the bedroom, etc...The inspector would use a little common sense, I hope.

This is a GC that our company has worked for 20+ years. He's used to my fathers prices which were too low. I've explained to him that we were previously undercharging and that I have brought our rates up to a fair, competitive number that allows us to actually be in business tomorrow. He's been getting Fillet at ground beef prices. Might be time he starts using cut rate hacks, I'm not going to get beat down to the penny on every job I do for this guy

Why would you do a favor for a GC that is shopping around.The other guy may just be trying to get his foot in the door or the GC may be trying to spook you either way I would stick with my bid.Alot of laid of guys are going to be looking to put a little cash in their pockets so lowball bids will be common.

 

[CopperTone]

.Alot of laid of guys are going to be looking to put a little cash in their pockets so lowball bids will be common.

Right now it is really tough to be win profitable jobs if you are bidding against many EC's (and laid off electricians looking for mortgage money and won't be around in 6 months).

Sounds like you will loose this GC anyway -just a matter of time- so you might as well stand your ground on the price now- you will sleep better at night knowing you aren't getting beat up every job with him. We had a GC recently come back to us and apologize for using other EC's and wanted us back on board for all their projects - I told them no more hassling of prices - they said fine. Haven't had a problem with them since.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

...The inspector would use a little common sense, I hope.

Inspector? Common sense? Do those words even fit together in the same sentence?

 

[satcom]

When I heard that $100 for 2 men, I thought about the handy men running around, no real knowladge of any trade, no insurance, no bonding, and a beater car, running arounf getting $150 or more an hour doing handy dandy work, and the people think they are great. In this recession they are cleaning up, cheaper then the ligit guys that have to get 200 to 300 an hour to stay afloat.

 

[electricguy]

I guess its time to start electricguys handyandy services