When did UL drop Zinsco?
- Thread starter blll
- Start date
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Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
I don't know if they did or if Zinsco eventually sold their business and the Zinsco product ceased to exist as it had been know.
But, maybe you can start with this reference" Federal Pacific Electric (FPE) Panels - Reliance Electric Co. Press Release date 7/7/80
I don't know if they did or if Zinsco eventually sold their business and the Zinsco product ceased to exist as it had been know.
But, maybe you can start with this reference" Federal Pacific Electric (FPE) Panels - Reliance Electric Co. Press Release date 7/7/80
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
I think zinsco went the way of federal breakers when it was found you can arc weld before the breaker tripped.Home depot sells replacments for both but have you priced a 2 pole 50
I think zinsco went the way of federal breakers when it was found you can arc weld before the breaker tripped.Home depot sells replacments for both but have you priced a 2 pole 50
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
Does this mean i can't use them zinsco panels i got on ebay ? dang now what will i do with them ?
Does this mean i can't use them zinsco panels i got on ebay ? dang now what will i do with them ?
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
Open a welding shop.
Open a welding shop.
kilewatt2002
Member
- Location
- washington state
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
I would be alot more worried about why Zinsco is still being found in houses. Everytime I run across one of those POS I insist on pannel replacement. At one time Zinsco had the reputation for being the leading cause of housefires nation wide. No wonder they lost the UL listing.
I would be alot more worried about why Zinsco is still being found in houses. Everytime I run across one of those POS I insist on pannel replacement. At one time Zinsco had the reputation for being the leading cause of housefires nation wide. No wonder they lost the UL listing.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
Well at least they were number 1 at something
Well at least they were number 1 at something
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
Yes, the last one that I ran into was in a home owned by a woman who was recently widowed and on a shoe string budget. It's been bothering me on how to approach her on finding the money to replace a panel with a reputation that stinks at best. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't. To I tell her that the panel is not safe in a home that she lived in with her then husband for well over 25 years without incident, telling her that the panel has a not so good history, telling a woman who is trying to make it on her own and frightening her about something that she doesn't quite understand which would cost her money she can not afford when trying to balance that with if you don't think of the possible consequences.
It's been a couple of years now and I see her on a semi regular basis which she should have by now acclimated her life. I'm going to suggest that she consider changing out her panel as gently as I can without scaring the daylights out of her.
If it would have been any other homeowner I would not have hesitated and would have done so in the blink of an eye to advise them of the Zinsco track record of failure.
Yes, the last one that I ran into was in a home owned by a woman who was recently widowed and on a shoe string budget. It's been bothering me on how to approach her on finding the money to replace a panel with a reputation that stinks at best. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't. To I tell her that the panel is not safe in a home that she lived in with her then husband for well over 25 years without incident, telling her that the panel has a not so good history, telling a woman who is trying to make it on her own and frightening her about something that she doesn't quite understand which would cost her money she can not afford when trying to balance that with if you don't think of the possible consequences.
It's been a couple of years now and I see her on a semi regular basis which she should have by now acclimated her life. I'm going to suggest that she consider changing out her panel as gently as I can without scaring the daylights out of her.
If it would have been any other homeowner I would not have hesitated and would have done so in the blink of an eye to advise them of the Zinsco track record of failure.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
At the very least you have a moral obligation to tell her that these panels have a relatively high failure rate.
I would be inclined to just tell her the facts, without overstating the case.
The vast majority of these panels never caused any problem. But some did. She needs to make an informed choice. Right now she is making a choice to keep the panel and does not even know it, because you have not given her the infomration she would need to be able to make an informed choice.
If you were a doctor, this would be malpractice.
At the very least you have a moral obligation to tell her that these panels have a relatively high failure rate.
I would be inclined to just tell her the facts, without overstating the case.
The vast majority of these panels never caused any problem. But some did. She needs to make an informed choice. Right now she is making a choice to keep the panel and does not even know it, because you have not given her the infomration she would need to be able to make an informed choice.
If you were a doctor, this would be malpractice.
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
petersonra,
For some odd reason I expected to get a reply such as yours which made me reluctant to even post.
As I had stated, if one can't afford to change the panel and then is frightened by the potential hazard, then you have and issue of a person who is frightened to live in there home an can't afford to do otherwise. It's easy to drop a little bombshell, scare the daylights out of this little lady, and leave.
Under the circumstances it wasn't the right time.
Like I said, damned if you do and damned if you don't. And, yes, with all things taken into consideration on must consider the odds if a failure happening as compared to traumatizing a person.
Now that time has passed and she is under a lot less stress and has become accustomed to where she is in life I have no problem with telling her of my findings, that she should strongly consider changing the panel as she is able to afford to do.
If the Zinsco panel was that defective the I would like to believe that there would have been a concerted effort to educate the public via TV, Radio, newspaper, or what ever other means as to the danger of the Zinsco product, to have then removed and replaced immediately.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to trivialize the problem because I beleave they should all be removed and replaced.
petersonra,
For some odd reason I expected to get a reply such as yours which made me reluctant to even post.
As I had stated, if one can't afford to change the panel and then is frightened by the potential hazard, then you have and issue of a person who is frightened to live in there home an can't afford to do otherwise. It's easy to drop a little bombshell, scare the daylights out of this little lady, and leave.
Under the circumstances it wasn't the right time.
Like I said, damned if you do and damned if you don't. And, yes, with all things taken into consideration on must consider the odds if a failure happening as compared to traumatizing a person.
Now that time has passed and she is under a lot less stress and has become accustomed to where she is in life I have no problem with telling her of my findings, that she should strongly consider changing the panel as she is able to afford to do.
If the Zinsco panel was that defective the I would like to believe that there would have been a concerted effort to educate the public via TV, Radio, newspaper, or what ever other means as to the danger of the Zinsco product, to have then removed and replaced immediately.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to trivialize the problem because I beleave they should all be removed and replaced.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
Some people never kick a breaker or blow a fuse in over 20 years.Breakers are there in case the wires get overloaded,it may never happen in 100 years and in reality the panel did nothing all its life.Am sure i am not the only electrician to remove a penny or change a 30 amp fuse to the 20 it should have had.You need to advise a customer of potential hazards.Seems that for whatever reason she is special to you.That in it self is reason to warn not scare her.Perhaps you could cut her a special deal or finance it for her.How will you feel if she dies in a fire that given the option she might have changed the panel,perhaps her kids or other kin will pay for it.Do the right thing and tell her.I also think you could get sued.
Some people never kick a breaker or blow a fuse in over 20 years.Breakers are there in case the wires get overloaded,it may never happen in 100 years and in reality the panel did nothing all its life.Am sure i am not the only electrician to remove a penny or change a 30 amp fuse to the 20 it should have had.You need to advise a customer of potential hazards.Seems that for whatever reason she is special to you.That in it self is reason to warn not scare her.Perhaps you could cut her a special deal or finance it for her.How will you feel if she dies in a fire that given the option she might have changed the panel,perhaps her kids or other kin will pay for it.Do the right thing and tell her.I also think you could get sued.
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
Has the government notified the public in general about the danger of this product? Or, is it our responsibility address each one as we run into them simply by chance? It appears to me that we have to rely on forums such as this and to "dig" for documentation that discusses the danger of these panels.
Yes, I'm well aware of the possibility of failure as commonly discussed and with little documentation that I have been able to read but I must be not be that great or one would like to think if the danger was all that great it would be widely publicized in the news media and other sources to get the homeowners attention.
Is there something published in the form of a recall or othe rdocument that can be provided to the customer?
Has the government notified the public in general about the danger of this product? Or, is it our responsibility address each one as we run into them simply by chance? It appears to me that we have to rely on forums such as this and to "dig" for documentation that discusses the danger of these panels.
Yes, I'm well aware of the possibility of failure as commonly discussed and with little documentation that I have been able to read but I must be not be that great or one would like to think if the danger was all that great it would be widely publicized in the news media and other sources to get the homeowners attention.
Is there something published in the form of a recall or othe rdocument that can be provided to the customer?
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
Regardless of our opinions, you have a connection with this person. Deep down, you're concerned. If I were in your position, I would feel good if I carefully determined what my cost would be, and offer to replace it at that cost.
Sometimes, it's about feeling good. That "Chicken Soup of the Soul" crap.
Regardless of our opinions, you have a connection with this person. Deep down, you're concerned. If I were in your position, I would feel good if I carefully determined what my cost would be, and offer to replace it at that cost.
Sometimes, it's about feeling good. That "Chicken Soup of the Soul" crap.
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
Gentlemen: I remember that late in 1977 or so there was a big recall of Zinsco breakers used in stand-up sections, due to something about phony UL LABELS. At about the same time CSA also yanked its approval on ALL Zinsco products. I believe that FPE was also involved in the affair to some extent. Since then, the Zinsco breaker line (the Q and R series) has since been sold to the Thomas and Betts Co. Later on, an importer of breakers from (Mainland) China, started selling them via home centres and DIY outlets. I believe the brand was called "UBI" and does not have a UL or CSA label on it. As a result, I tell my customers to buy the T&B types only. T&B also has replacement busbars availble for the residential panels.
Gentlemen: I remember that late in 1977 or so there was a big recall of Zinsco breakers used in stand-up sections, due to something about phony UL LABELS. At about the same time CSA also yanked its approval on ALL Zinsco products. I believe that FPE was also involved in the affair to some extent. Since then, the Zinsco breaker line (the Q and R series) has since been sold to the Thomas and Betts Co. Later on, an importer of breakers from (Mainland) China, started selling them via home centres and DIY outlets. I believe the brand was called "UBI" and does not have a UL or CSA label on it. As a result, I tell my customers to buy the T&B types only. T&B also has replacement busbars availble for the residential panels.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
Cheaper and safer to do a change out to a listed name brand.Years ago I did a side job Changing out a 300 a 3 phase breaker in a small grocery store it was an FPE,feed through type.For some reason I unscrewed the hold down screws first and then undid the load side then when I undid the line side there was a crack sound.
This was in a dark dank corner of a basement,I changed out the breaker and took the old one with me.Next day I was curious and looked at the breaker 2 hold downs one hole with daylight,the 2nd had internal parts crossing the opening :roll:
Cheaper and safer to do a change out to a listed name brand.Years ago I did a side job
Changing out a 300 a 3 phase breaker in a small grocery store it was an FPE,feed through type.For some reason I unscrewed the hold down screws first and then undid the load side then when I undid the line side there was a crack sound.This was in a dark dank corner of a basement,I changed out the breaker and took the old one with me.Next day I was curious and looked at the breaker 2 hold downs one hole with daylight,the 2nd had internal parts crossing the opening :roll:
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
Thanks,
HWS
I've been isolated for over 30 years I guess. What is a Zinsco panel? I worked in the Tidewater Va. area and eastern NC mostly. I haven't wired residential since about 1977. Is this a local panel? Used mostly in residential?
Thanks,
HWS
kentirwin
Senior Member
- Location
- Norfolk, VA
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
HWS - I'm in Tidewater, VA too. And I've never heard of Zinsco either.
HWS - I'm in Tidewater, VA too. And I've never heard of Zinsco either.
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
Sorry, guys, hate to spoil the party....
Zinso, like FPE, never, NEVER, "lost" it's UL listing. Period.
Both were bought/sold numerous times. Both may or may not still be made somewhere, and be listed under their new names.
It can be said that the low opinion held of them by the electrical community was a reason they are no longer a serious player in the market.
Is it listed? Does it have a UL mark? Then, it probably is....the major exception being that UL has no way to certify re-manufactured breakers. Technically, an individual breaker is no longer entitled to the UL mark once it is remanufactured or rebuilt.
Sorry, guys, hate to spoil the party....
Zinso, like FPE, never, NEVER, "lost" it's UL listing. Period.
Both were bought/sold numerous times. Both may or may not still be made somewhere, and be listed under their new names.
It can be said that the low opinion held of them by the electrical community was a reason they are no longer a serious player in the market.
Is it listed? Does it have a UL mark? Then, it probably is....the major exception being that UL has no way to certify re-manufactured breakers. Technically, an individual breaker is no longer entitled to the UL mark once it is remanufactured or rebuilt.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
For those of you who haven't have the privlage to deal with these panels and there burn't busses, here is a couple images:
For those of you who haven't have the privlage to deal with these panels and there burn't busses, here is a couple images:
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: When did UL drop Zinsco?
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