When do you need a EC license

[brian john]

I may have posted this before, but the issue came up today in the office. we do a variety of work including IR, battery service, generator service and load test (utilizing resistive load banks)

We have run up against contractors that do the same work, but are not licensed electricians nor have a EC license in our area, some are not even GC's no business license.

Should an company doing IR's be required to have a EC license?

Should a company be allowed to do DC power without a EC license?

Should a company be allowed to perform load test without an EC license?

This does impact our bottom line as generally these companies can for what ever reason outbid us many times. I do not mind competition, but FAIR competion.

I did ask one AHJ and their response was document it, get the owners info and they would follow up as manpower permitted.

 

[petersonra]

I think it depends entirely on what the law says. Even in the most restrictive places people who are not EC's do work on things that have electrified wires associated with them.

I certainly would not call an EC to come repair a charging station for my electric forklifts.

 

[brantmacga]

Should an company doing IR's be required to have a EC license?

Should a company be allowed to do DC power without a EC license?

Should a company be allowed to perform load test without an EC license?

I would say you need a license for all of them. The only one that may be questionable is the IR work, but I would think because they are entering equipment, a license is needed. If I were an owner, I wouldn't want an unlicensed person entering my electrical equipment for insurance reasons.

Is licensing done locally or on the state level? I submitted a similar complaint once to the state regarding LV work. I mentioned it on here and was scolded for doing so. My reasons were the same as yours.

Anyhow, the licensing agency should be able to define if this type of work requires a license.

 

[barbeer]

I would say you need a license for all of them. The only one that may be questionable is the IR work, but I would think because they are entering equipment, a license is needed. If I were an owner, I wouldn't want an unlicensed person entering my electrical equipment for insurance reasons.

Is licensing done locally or on the state level? I submitted a similar complaint once to the state regarding LV work. I mentioned it on here and was scolded for doing so. My reasons were the same as yours.

Anyhow, the licensing agency should be able to define if this type of work requires a license.

I concur.

 

[iwire]

Is anybody checking the laws or just going by gut instinct? :grin:

Here in MA I do not belive a license would be required by the state to do IR work. However to make any repairs found during the IR scan would need a license.

 

[iwire]

but I would think because they are entering equipment, a license is needed.

I would be very surprised if any states law requiring an electrical license is based on removing a panel cover.

 

[zog]

I may have posted this before, but the issue came up today in the office. we do a variety of work including IR, battery service, generator service and load test (utilizing resistive load banks)

We have run up against contractors that do the same work, but are not licensed electricians nor have a EC license in our area, some are not even GC's no business license.

Should an company doing IR's be required to have a EC license?

Should a company be allowed to do DC power without a EC license?

Should a company be allowed to perform load test without an EC license?

This does impact our bottom line as generally these companies can for what ever reason outbid us many times. I do not mind competition, but FAIR competion.

I did ask one AHJ and their response was document it, get the owners info and they would follow up as manpower permitted.

I dont see why you need a licence to do any of that, is any of that covered on any exams? Some type of certification should exsit ,NETA certified for example, which does REQUIRE knowledge of testing those systems, safety, and proper operation of the test equipment used to test those systems.

IMO these tests have nothing to do with being an EC.

 

[480sparky]

A license will be required whenever the gubbamint wants some money.

 

[iwire]

I dont see why you need a licence to do any of that, is any of that covered on any exams?

Why do you think 'DC power' should be exempt? :-?

DC can burn a place down just as well as AC. I am working on some solar jobs and the DC coming into the building from the roof will be 450 to 550 VDC and the current levels will be in the 100s of amps. The NEC covers all parts of that work.

 

[roger]

I dont see why you need a licence to do any of that, is any of that covered on any exams? Some type of certification should exsit ,NETA certified for example, which does REQUIRE knowledge of testing those systems, safety, and proper operation of the test equipment used to test those systems.

IMO these tests have nothing to do with being an EC.

Well, I'm pretty sure it could be considered maintaining electrical equipment and in NC it would require a licensed EC based on this.

87-43. ELECTRICAL CONTRACTING DEFINED; LICENSES.
Electrical contracting shall be defined as engaging or offering to engage in the business of installing, maintaining, altering or
repairing any electric work, wiring, devices, appliances or equipment. No person, partnership, firm or corporation shall engage, or
offer to engage, in the business of electrical contracting within the State of North Carolina without having received a license in the applicable classification described in G.S. 87-43.3 from the State Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors in compliance with the provisions of this Article, regardless of whether the offer was made or the work was performed by a qualified individual as defined in G.S. 87-41.1.

Roger

 

[iwire]

Well, I'm pretty sure it could be considered maintaining electrical equipment and in NC it would require a licensed EC based on this.

Our rules in MA aren't quite so strict.

PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT


TITLE XX. PUBLIC SAFETY AND GOOD ORDER


CHAPTER 141. SUPERVISION OF ELECTRICIANS


Chapter 141: Section 1A. Licensure requirement; exceptions


Section 1A. No person, firm or corporation shall enter into, engage in, or work at the business or occupation of installing wires, conduits, apparatus, devices, fixtures, or other appliances for carrying or using electricity for light, heat, power, fire warning or security system purposes, unless such person, firm or corporation shall be licensed by the state examiners of electricians in accordance with this chapter and, with respect to security systems, unless such person, firm or corporation shall also be licensed by the commissioner of public safety in accordance with the provisions of sections fifty-seven to sixty-one, inclusive, of chapter one hundred and forty-seven.

This chapter shall not apply to: a person not engaged in the business described in this section who employs or contracts for the services of a person, firm or corporation engaged in such business; or to an apprentice employed by a person, firm or corporation licensed in accordance with this chapter; or to an agent, employee or assistant of a person, firm or corporation licensed in accordance with this chapter who does not engage in or perform the actual work described in this section.

 

[ItsHot]

Well, I'm pretty sure it could be considered maintaining electrical equipment and in NC it would require a licensed EC based on this.


Roger

I would agree with Roger. Some states the law may not require license to do this type work, but it appears in NC a license is required.

 

[SEO]

Would this testing be classified as maintenance work?

 

[GUNNING]

If you are an EC it means you are insured, licensed, bonded to do the work? Right? Notice I didn't say knowledgable? It would be up to the party doing the hirer-in if they want El cheapo to do the work or someone they can blame and sue. Somebody on the board uses the phrase "I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you!"
Sell your strengths. Spell it out in big bold writing on the contract. YOU CAN SUE ME IF IM WRONG! and I HAVE DEEP POCKETS TO CORRECT THIS! and HIRE ME BECAUSE IM QUALIFIED BY THE STATE TO DO THIS WORK AND YOU CAN CHECK BY GOING TO WWW.AHJ.GOV. Some people are too stupid to help. Use your proposal to educate and continue the sale. If they can read that is.

 

[brian john]

With the IR they are making repair recommendations, many WAY OFF THE MARK.

My issues is a level playing field I pay my taxes in a form of licensing and if you are going to compete in the same market place as I do you should have to follow the same rules. Much less there being a certain level of training required.

 

[zog]

Well, I'm pretty sure it could be considered maintaining electrical equipment and in NC it would require a licensed EC based on this.


Roger

Sure, I will be sure to tell my customers to call an EC to do thier on line PD testing, or primary injection testing of thier breakers. Can they call you for that? I guess engineers dont cut the mustard in NC.

 

[zog]

With the IR they are making repair recommendations, many WAY OFF THE MARK.

My issues is a level playing field I pay my taxes in a form of licensing and if you are going to compete in the same market place as I do you should have to follow the same rules. Much less there being a certain level of training required.

I am sure you know but there are certification programs for IR scanning, and most insurance companies (Not all) require certified therographers to do the scanning, not "Billy Joe Jim Bob" and his new IR camera.

 

[khixxx]

Some states have a exemption if a facility has a full time electrician. NC is one of them. I think this is how staffing companies get around the license issue.

 

[roger]

Sure, I will be sure to tell my customers to call an EC to do thier on line PD testing, or primary injection testing of thier breakers.

Probably a very good idea

Can they call you for that?

Actually, yes they can, we partner with a couple of different breaker testing outfits, and they have qualifiers for this very reason.

We also provide

Core Loss & Surge Testing
Load Testing
Dynamic Balancing up to
10,000 lbs. - 15ft Rebabbitting Bearings
IR
Predictive Maintenance
Vibration Analysis

so you won't get anywhere with me with your argument.

I guess engineers dont cut the mustard in NC.

Not for doing electrical work, however, our in-house engineer holds an unlimited license so he "cuts the mustard" I guess.:grin:

Sorry you don't like the laws but, I didn't make them.

Roger

 

[roger]

Some states have a exemption if a facility has a full time electrician. NC is one of them. I think this is how staffing companies get around the license issue.

There are exceptions in NC Statute 87-43.2 and are as follows,

The provisions of this Article shall not apply:

(1) To the installation, construction or maintenance of facilities for providing electric service to the public ahead ofthe point of delivery of electric service to the customer;

(2) To the installation, construction, maintenance, or repair of telephone, telegraph, or signal systems, by public utilities,or their corporate affiliates, when said work pertains to the services furnished by said public utilities;​

(3) To any person in the course of his work as a bona fide employee of a licensee of this Board;​

(4) To the installation, construction or maintenance of electrical equipment and wiring for temporary use by contractors in connection with the work of construction;​

(5) To the installation, construction, maintenance or repair of electrical wiring, devices, appliances or equipment by persons, firms or corporations, upon their own property when such property is not intended at the time for rent, lease, sale or gift, who regularly employ one or more electricians or mechanics for the purpose of installing, maintaining, altering or repairing of electrical wiring, devices or equipment used for the conducting of the business of said persons, firms or corporations;​

(5a) To any person who is himself and for himself installing, maintaining, altering or repairing electric work, wiring, devices, appliances or equipment upon his own property when such property is not intended at the time for rent, lease, or sale;​

(6) To the installation, construction, maintenance or repair of electrical wiring, devices, appliances or equipment by State institutions and private educational institutions which maintain a private electrical department;​

(7) To the replacement of lamps and fuses and to the installation and servicing of cord-connected appliances and equipment connected by means of attachment plug-in devices to suitable receptacles which have been permanently installed or to the servicing of appliances connected to a permanently installed junction box. This exception does not apply to permanently installed receptacles or to the installation of the junction box.

Roger​