When is a panel upgrade required?

[JoeNorm]

I have some new circuits to add at a residence with an older Byant panel with the multicolored breakers. If I am not mistaken they are comparable with BR breakers. All the single pole breakers are twinned already so if I want more space i'll have to start using quads.

Where is the line of "you need a new panel"? Around here labor rates are quite high, so panel swaps are pretty expensive. If the customer is on a tight budget it can be hard to tell them they need a $5K upgrade when the job might be able to be accomplished with some quads, doubling up circuits, etc.

So where is the line?

 

[LarryFine]

There is a difference between the amount of load and the quantity of loads.

If you need more circuits, you only need to add a sub-panel.

I you need more load capacity, you need a service upgrade.

So, you have to do a present-load and added-load calcs.

BTW, quads are merely multi-pole twins, so won't add space.

 

[JoeNorm]

Thanks. I need space. The service is 200 Amp.

I was referring to a breaker that has two 2-pole breakers. So combining a couple of standard 2-pole breakers certainly gives you two free spaces

I suppose a subanel is a fine idea and I can let sleeping dogs lie with the old panel

 

[LarryFine]

Thanks. I need space. The service is 200 Amp.

Okay, not enough additional load to warrant load calcs.

I was referring to a breaker that has two 2-pole breakers. So combining a couple of standard 2-pole breakers certainly gives you two free spaces

Aha, you meant as replacements. I dislike doubling up higher circuits.

I suppose a subanel is a fine idea and I can let sleeping dogs lie with the old panel

Yes, much, much, much easier to fish new circuits into than an over-full existing panel.

If you need the space for your sub's feeder, move two smaller circuits to the new sub.

 

[James L]

BTW, quads are merely multi-pole twins

It's not quite that simple.
Quads are two twins *with circuit limiting for notched buss*

If every buss space in the panel has a notch, fill it up with quads.

But if it's a non-ctl panel, you have to do a certain field modification to the quads to make them fit