When is dual AFCI and GFCI required?

[Stevenfyeager]

2014 NEC, the entire house requires AFCI, with the kitchen and laundry requiring both (dual) AFCI/GFCI, correct? The bathroms and garage are just GFCI only, right? Thank you.

 

[ActionDave]

That's sounds about right. Dishwashers need GFCI protection, I don't think they need AFCI.

 

[bphgravity]

The two attached documents cover this well. Under the 2014 edition, all 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens are required to be AFCI protected. This includes the kitchen appliances such as dishwashers.

Please keep in mind that installing AFCI or GFCI protection on circuits NOT required by the code in effect for the project in question would NOT be a violation of the code. So, circuits supplying the garage, bathroom, or outdoors are permitted to be AFCI protected if that makes your wiring options more practical and efficient. The same applies to GFCI protection.

 

[kwired]

Bottom line is there is requirements in 210.8 and requirements in 210.12. If you meet requirements from both sections you need both types of protection. A dual function AFCI/GFCI is one possible way to meet both requirements by using one device.

 

[peter d]

Please keep in mind that installing AFCI or GFCI protection on circuits NOT required by the code in effect for the project in question would NOT be a violation of the code. So, circuits supplying the garage, bathroom, or outdoors are permitted to be AFCI protected if that makes your wiring options more practical and efficient. The same applies to GFCI protection.

Not a violation, but definitely a waste of time and money.

 

[peter d]

2014 NEC, the entire house requires AFCI, with the kitchen and laundry requiring both (dual) AFCI/GFCI, correct? The bathroms and garage are just GFCI only, right? Thank you.

I thought Indiana exempted the AFCI requirements?

 

[user 100]

I thought Indiana exempted the AFCI requirements?

I thought the same- they were the only holdouts among states weren't they?

Not sure how Indiana handles their state enforcement, maybe his local ahj has adopted them?

 

[kwired]

I thought the same- they were the only holdouts among states weren't they?

Not sure how Indiana handles their state enforcement, maybe his local ahj has adopted them?

Or maybe has a project not in Indiana? If not used to having to use AFCI and then put in a situation where you have to, is understandable you may not know where you need them. To go from not needing them at all to 2014 requirements is like baptism with fire.

 

[al hildenbrand]

2014 NEC, the entire house requires AFCI, with the kitchen and laundry requiring both (dual) AFCI/GFCI, correct? The bathroms and garage are just GFCI only, right? Thank you.

The manufacturers are making a circuit breaker that is a "dual function" circuit breaker. The wording of your question might be interpreted to be asking when the "dual function circuit breaker" is required to be used.

The Code does not require the installation of "dual function circuit breakers". It is an option, not a requirement.

The Code DOES require both GFCI protection and AFCI protection in certain instances, however.

One manufacturer explains their dual function circuit breaker in this document. (In a nutshell, it is a single breaker that is both a Combination-type AFCI and a Class A GFCI.)

The "dual function circuit breaker" may not be a good solution for your customer. . . say they have a new dishwasher added in their kitchen that requires a new circuit, and the service center is still a fuse center. Rather than upgrade the entire service center, your customer may only want to pay for an Outlet Branch Circuit AFCI device beside the fuse center and a GFCI located on the new branch circuit by the dishwasher.

 

[romex jockey]

IIRC, readily accessible gfci protection may have been a '14 inclusion....

210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for
Personnel. Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for
personnel shall be provided as required in 210.8(A) through
(C). The ground-fault circuit-interrupter shall be installed in
a readily accessible location.

The rationale being one would not be compliant stuffing a gfci behind a refer, or possibly under a sink for a dishwasher ( the blank face countertop gfci's being a hard sell)

Placed alongside the 210.12 afci requirements , the Dual Purpose breakers seem to be the practical ,if not economical compliant practice

The only other concern(s) to meet is having these DP OCPD's readily accessible, and motorized equipment requiring disco & lotto , even in a residence.

So we've been installing panels full of DP's up in a residence , vs. down in their cellars

AHJ opinions may vary....


~RJ~

 

[romex jockey]

Another good use of DP's are smoke jobs, were i find they make meeting the requirements of 406.4 easy....

Let's say you've been called to smoke out an older apartment, all BX /KT wiring with ungrounded receptacle outlets

Now one could argue the 6' rule of 210.12(B) , coming off it , not disturb the original receptacle outlet (hard to do) and maybe use all plastic boxes where there is nothing to ground, yet you've still run an egc....

Since most antiquated wiring is a one circuit does all deal, one DP may well gain compliance , with particular note of 406.4(D)3 EX (also a new '14 inclusion) advocating their installs....

~RJ~

 

[kwired]

IIRC, readily accessible gfci protection may have been a '14 inclusion....




The rationale being one would not be compliant stuffing a gfci behind a refer, or possibly under a sink for a dishwasher ( the blank face countertop gfci's being a hard sell)

Placed alongside the 210.12 afci requirements , the Dual Purpose breakers seem to be the practical ,if not economical compliant practice

The only other concern(s) to meet is having these DP OCPD's readily accessible, and motorized equipment requiring disco & lotto , even in a residence.

So we've been installing panels full of DP's up in a residence , vs. down in their cellars

AHJ opinions may vary....


~RJ~

pretty certain GFCI needing to be readily accessible was added at least 2011, maybe even 2008.

What was added in 2014 is changes requiring the dishwasher to have GFCI protection as well as AFCI requirements expanded to include wiring serving kitchen areas. This increased the demand to have something that provides both AFCI and GFCI protection for a particular situation that is fairly common. Only place I have used DF breakers so far is for the dishwasher, but I can also count on one hand how many I have installed as well.

 

[romex jockey]

I stand corrected Mr Kwired, thx

So perhaps the big Q should be if all those spontaneously erupting UL sanctioned chinese import dishwasher fires are going to stop in the future....? :lol: ~RJ~

 

[kwired]

I stand corrected Mr Kwired, thx

So perhaps the big Q should be if all those spontaneously erupting UL sanctioned chinese import dishwasher fires are going to stop in the future....? :lol: ~RJ~

I agree that the GFCI requirement for dishwashers was treating the symptom and not the problem.

 

[frankft2000]

I've been using the dual function breakers for dishwashers AND the small appliance branch circuits.The AFCI is required anyways, and the dual function breaker is $3.00 more, but I can leave out the countertop GFCI. My thinking is that if something is going to trip, it would probably trip at the panel with the AFCI anyways, so might as well have the GFCI there also.

 

[GoldDigger]

I've been using the dual function breakers for dishwashers AND the small appliance branch circuits.The AFCI is required anyways, and the dual function breaker is $3.00 more, but I can leave out the countertop GFCI. My thinking is that if something is going to trip, it would probably trip at the panel with the AFCI anyways, so might as well have the GFCI there also.

As long as the breaker lets you know whether it tripped on GF or AF, using a dual function breaker should be fine.

 

[JFletcher]

As long as the breaker lets you know whether it tripped on GF or AF, using a dual function breaker should be fine.

Do any combo breakers do this? Just the GFCI/AFCI I have seen trip the same regardless of ground fault or amperage overload. Are you suggesting 3 trip positions for AF/GF/overload?

 

[kwired]

Do any combo breakers do this? Just the GFCI/AFCI I have seen trip the same regardless of ground fault or amperage overload. Are you suggesting 3 trip positions for AF/GF/overload?

I believe he is hinting at the fact that latest generation of Siemens AFCI breakers have an indicator light on them that will tell you if the trip was due to arc fault or ground fault, and would also about need to tell you if it tripped on thermal/magnetic function somehow. I have not been around them to know exactly how they work but have read about them. This was on standard AFCI with 30mA GFP, don't know if they have a dual function AFCI/GFCI but would expect they soon will if they don't, and that it probably has similar indication of why it tripped.

 

[GoldDigger]

Some breakers that do not have multiple indicator lights will still give you an indication of what the last trip was when you press the test button. (Something like the test trip will be immediate if the last actual fault was GF and delayed a few seconds if the last fault was AF.)

 

[bphgravity]

Do any combo breakers do this? Just the GFCI/AFCI I have seen trip the same regardless of ground fault or amperage overload. Are you suggesting 3 trip positions for AF/GF/overload?

ALL of the (4) manufacturers of dual function AFCI/GFCI circuit breakers (GE, Eaton, Schneider, Siemens) have a "trip cause" or "last know trip" function that allows the user to determine what caused the device to open. This is usually an indicator light, LEDs or a test procedure outlined in the installation instructions.