When to expand my business?

[Mule]

I dont expect the economy to allow much market growth for 2009, and I dont expect to do anything for the next 2-3-4 months untill we get out of the depths of this slump, or even if it gets worse....But Im thinking and considering that I might be able to increase my market share for my area in the upcoming year. How does a person know when its time to hire a Jman and expand? I seem to consistantly stay around 3-4 weeks behind. So with that, if things dont get to much worse, I figure if I've stay'd this busy during the winter I should be all right....

Also how do I know what to pay vs what to charge....I've heard 2 1/2 to 3 times the cost of labor including WC, SS, and insurance cost....but this would be a first for me. I am convinced however that spending top dollar for the right person would be essential, rather than hiring a person who is a negative pull on your business name..


Just thinking???

 

[adamants]

never hire extra until you can't deal with the work you have got, consistently! funny how the work doesn't seem as much when there is another set of hands around. I found this about 18 months ago, luckily he was only there for 3 months experience as part of his apprenticeship. It also takes a lot more work to organise 2 guys and yourself, than just you and one other, and a lot more work needs to come in.
just my experience.
I am finally sitting down and studying my business to find the most profitable jobs and focusing on them and fitting everything else in when i have time.

 

[Mule]

never hire extra until you can't deal with the work you have got, consistently! funny how the work doesn't seem as much when there is another set of hands around. I found this about 18 months ago, luckily he was only there for 3 months experience as part of his apprenticeship. It also takes a lot more work to organise 2 guys and yourself, than just you and one other, and a lot more work needs to come in.
just my experience.
I am finally sitting down and studying my business to find the most profitable jobs and focusing on them and fitting everything else in when i have time.

Sounds like pretty good advice for sure, I've thought about these very issues alot.

Im thinking the transition from our 1 1/2 man shop to eventually 4-5 would actually have a less profitable trend to it along the way but would eventually pay off. As you say, keeping another truck busy would take my tool belt off and reduce my billable hours as I would have to manage more, unless you could find that special Jman.

Then as the special Jman gets his required hours in, he leaves you to persue his own business. Question is do I really want to persue that viscuous circle.....and when I really look in the mirror, I have to ask my self why? is it really worth it?...the only reason for me would be that Im getting older and physicaly have a hard time keeping up. Im really not that money hungry, all though in some ways it would be nice.

 

[charlietuna]

Figure out how much is costs your company to hire you for about six weeks-thats how long it will take to begin to deposit money from this new employee's past work! When you have this amount of money set aside consider hiring someone !

PS: Make sure he is educated in panel expansion and load calcs to help you fix those "extra circuits you installed on a "HUNCH" "???:grin:

 

[Mule]

PS: Make sure he is educated in panel expansion and load calcs to help you fix those "extra circuits you installed on a "HUNCH" "???:grin:

My "HUNCH" is you have a specific character, but I really dont need to do the calc's because its evident....... nuff said

 

[JohnJ0906]

Then as the special Jman gets his required hours in, he leaves you to pursue his own business. Question is do I really want to pursue that viscous circle......

How do you know any particular person will want to leave?

Not all of us have any desire to have our own business.

 

[Mule]

How do you know any particular person will want to leave?

Not all of us have any desire to have our own business.

This is very true, but around here with state statues, its just typical. Half the EC's in town, used to be Jman's for somebody else, and as soon as they got there time in, they became a EC....I know a few Jman that have worked for the EC for a longer time, but not typical. Most local EC's are like me, 2-5 man shop.....However on the contrary, the local Union shop in town is able to keep Jman for extended times because they offer benifiets, and they actually stay to retirement in some cases.

 

[satcom]

I dont expect the economy to allow much market growth for 2009, and I dont expect to do anything for the next 2-3-4 months untill we get out of the depths of this slump, or even if it gets worse

Don't be so sure it will last, I believe the recovery could start as soon as this spring, and it may supprise everyone at the speed it pick's up.

As for what you pay, your accountant can help you with that, if you don't have an accountant, then it may be wise to look into it, we never made much fordward progress, until we had an accountant, the best money we ever invested.

 

[macmikeman]

Don't be so sure it will last, I believe the recovery could start as soon as this spring, and it may supprise everyone at the speed it pick's up.
.

Hey are you turning positive on us? These are truly wierd times...

 

[satcom]

Hey are you turning positive on us? These are truly wierd times...

I Have always been positive, with the expection of comments on safety and the laws, any caution I take may come from being exposed to 4 generations of business, and a conbination of many years of working in the industry.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I always wonder where guys are headed when they become an EC. Big? Small? Did you want to be big or did it just happen? There's an EC that I know and respect that has 13 fully stocked trucks running around and he is constantly busy, and I know single guy shops that can't pay the bills. On the other hand, I've seen a big shop go belly up (for whatever reason) and a two man shop that's been around for 20+ years.

I have no idea how to figure it out. You're 3-4 weeks out with you and another guy. Put out a second truck are you still 3-4 weeks out or do you catch up in 3-4 weeks and go oops!? Do you trun down a lot of service work because you have bigger jobs lined up? Do you get enough service call work that you could keep a truck busy?

I believe that in another thread someone asked why people wait for you if you are that far out? But how much business do you lose, because you are 3-4 weeks out? Every new customer is potentionally two new customers.

 

[nunu161]

You don't have to be a union member to open a union shop. Go down to your local union office and sign up as a contractor. You can hire and lay off men as you please and not have to feel bad and you will also know you are getting an experienced and well trained electrician.

 

[Rewire]

I plan on putting another van on the raod this spring work is about what I expect in mid Febuary. I spoke with several resort managers and they say reservations are being made.I have kept three service vans on the road all winter so a forth is a doable thing I already found several vans for sale now I just need to gather the needed tools.

 

[Mule]

I always wonder where guys are headed when they become an EC. Big? Small? Did you want to be big or did it just happen? There's an EC that I know and respect that has 13 fully stocked trucks running around and he is constantly busy, and I know single guy shops that can't pay the bills. On the other hand, I've seen a big shop go belly up (for whatever reason) and a two man shop that's been around for 20+ years.

I have no idea how to figure it out. You're 3-4 weeks out with you and another guy. Put out a second truck are you still 3-4 weeks out or do you catch up in 3-4 weeks and go oops!? Do you trun down a lot of service work because you have bigger jobs lined up? Do you get enough service call work that you could keep a truck busy?

I believe that in another thread someone asked why people wait for you if you are that far out? But how much business do you lose, because you are 3-4 weeks out? Every new customer is potentionally two new customers.

I dont believe that I am turning down enough work to support a second truck right now, however, Im just thinking down the road, (possibly this spring or early summer) so that I would be ready. I'm more interested in learning right now.....

You don't have to be a union member to open a union shop. Go down to your local union office and sign up as a contractor. You can hire and lay off men as you please and not have to feel bad and you will also know you are getting an experienced and well trained electrician.

You know, that's not to bad of idea, however Im not sure if resi work would support profit on top of a union wage package, however commercial probably would.....So what all do you have to provide to a union worker, besides wages?

 

[Fulthrotl]

You don't have to be a union member to open a union shop. Go down to your local union office and sign up as a contractor. You can hire and lay off men as you please and not have to feel bad and you will also know you are getting an experienced and well trained electrician.

there is some truth to this... if you are busy, and need 5 guys tomorrow,
it's one phone call.... if you only need them for 3 or 4 days..... no hard
feelings. if you have one of them you like, he stays....

for that luxury, expect to pay a negotiated wage, and benefit package.
and have an agreement regarding working conditions, etc.

if you want a product dispensed on call, from a tap, ya gotta pay for the
guy who fills the tank, and lays the pipe to your door....

however, it's like being married.... you have one source for a specific thing,
and if you go out shopping for it on the side, people get downright crabby.

look at the local supplying your geographic area, and get a copy of their
working agreement. that'll tell you if you can play by their rules.....

 

[nunu161]

The rates and packages vary from the area you work/live in the following link it will show u a map keep clicking the area u live in and it then once u find the right place click on construction jobs board

http://www.ibew.com/IBEW/directory/states/us_inside.asp?B1=USA+Inside++

also the IBEW recently started a c/e and c/w program which allows you to hire workers at a lower pay scale for the residential/light commercial jobs

 

[Mule]

The rates and packages vary from the area you work/live in the following link it will show u a map keep clicking the area u live in and it then once u find the right place click on construction jobs board

http://www.ibew.com/IBEW/directory/states/us_inside.asp?B1=USA+Inside++

also the IBEW recently started a c/e and c/w program which allows you to hire workers at a lower pay scale for the residential/light commercial jobs

Thanks...local 584 Scale was around $22 and every thing included it looked like just over $30

 

[nunu161]

and becoming a union contractor the union will also fax you upcoming jobs you can bid on helping you make money as well

 

[Mule]

and becoming a union contractor the union will also fax you upcoming jobs you can bid on helping you make money as well

Ah..this makes good conversation, but in truth, I dont think I would want to deal with all of that....Im just a small guy, in a small town. This is a bit far fetched for me....

 

[nunu161]

it doesnt hurt to call and see what they offer theyre not gonna turn u away thats all