Where do you draw the line on pulling a permit?

[ramsy]

So how 'bout ..contractors assume all liability for the work they do?

The earliest known principles of construction law can be found in the Code of Hammurabi, the sixth king of Babylon 1792 BC to 1750 BC. The Code of Hammurabi contained 282 laws inscribed on twelve stone tablets..

229 If a builder builds a house, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death.

230 If it kills the son of the owner, the son of that builder shall be put to death.

231 If it kills a slave of the owner, then he shall pay, slave for slave, to the owner of the house.

232 If it ruins goods, he shall make compensation for all ruined, and inasmuch as he did not construct properly .. he shall re-erect the house from his own means.

233 If a builder builds a house for someone, even though not yet completed; if then the walls seem toppling, he must make the walls solid from his own means.

Hammurabi’s Code was one of the earliest written codes of law in recorded history..
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=5181e80b-f307-42e6-a357-c2d081b678ff

 

[kwired]

Just because an inspector passed you doesn't let you off the hook should something be found that was not to code or dangerous. He may share in the "liability" but it was YOU who did the install and should know the proper way and double check the work you did.

outside of gross negligence, AHJ gets out of this nearly every time.

The earliest known principles of construction law can be found in the Code of Hammurabi, the sixth king of Babylon 1792 BC to 1750 BC. The Code of Hammurabi contained 282 laws inscribed on twelve stone tablets..

229 If a builder builds a house, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death.

230 If it kills the son of the owner, the son of that builder shall be put to death.

231 If it kills a slave of the owner, then he shall pay, slave for slave, to the owner of the house.

232 If it ruins goods, he shall make compensation for all ruined, and inasmuch as he did not construct properly .. he shall re-erect the house from his own means.

233 If a builder builds a house for someone, even though not yet completed; if then the walls seem toppling, he must make the walls solid from his own means.

Hammurabi’s Code was one of the earliest written codes of law in recorded history..
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=5181e80b-f307-42e6-a357-c2d081b678ff

Any mentioning of AFCI's in there?

 

[jumper]

Any mentioning of AFCI's in there?

They are still deciphering local amendments.

 

[raider1]

So how 'bout we forgo inspections and let electrical contractors assume all liability for the work they do?

As a Contractor I value inspections as another set of eyes to look over the work that I have done. If an Inspector catches something that I have done that is a violation I can fix the violation before it becomes as issue that my insurance may have to cover.

I have always felt that the contactor and the inspector are part of a team to help verify that a building is safe and sanitary. There really shouldn't be an adversarial relationship between contactors and inspectors.

When you preform electrical work as a contactor you already assume all liability for your work.

Chris

 

[Sierrasparky]

As a Contractor I value inspections as another set of eyes to look over the work that I have done. If an Inspector catches something that I have done that is a violation I can fix the violation before it becomes as issue that my insurance may have to cover.

I have always felt that the contactor and the inspector are part of a team to help verify that a building is safe and sanitary. There really shouldn't be an adversarial relationship between contactors and inspectors.

When you preform electrical work as a contactor you already assume all liability for your work.

Chris

I hear ya.
Unfortunately in CA the residential inspectors no little if any worthwhile electrical . They know to look for AFCI and GFCI , they know to staple wires and look for distance from edge.
In my opinion that is about it. They don't really know what they are looking at. If they see all the rope nice and neat on the studs they think the guy did a good job. They know nothing about box fill or circuits required. All they are is revenue verification.

sad but so true.

 

[tortuga]

Just curious what everyone's take is on this? Where do you draw the line on pulling a permit? Changing light fixtures? Retrofitting? Hooking up a new piece of equipment? Only when you run new circuits?

In my opinion:

1. Understand the laws you live under Make sure you understand when a permit is required in the areas you work and what the penalties are for not getting one. They wont let you pretend you did not know.
2. Get permits as required pass the cost along to the customer.
3. If you choose to do a non permitted job Do all the work as if its going to be combed over by a team of inspectors, insurance investigators, and everyone on this forum, avoid anything that is a grey area. There is a huge difference between not filing the proper paperwork (owing the government a little money) and doing work that violates code when you are a professional that should know better (fraud, gross negligence).
4. You never know who is going to show up.
   Years ago in here in Oregon the state hired some retired police officers to randomly go around and find contractors working without a permit. I have heard of people getting busted while doing all kinds of small jobs but not really often.
   Last year a security camera guy got nailed at a commercial job I was on. The guy happened to be there installing security cameras as I had an inspection. The poor guy was clueless arguing with the inspector just making everything worse, never spoke to me about permits or anything before hand.
5. Handle the entire permit process Lots of people hate to get permits, for most small projects where there are no other contractors or work being done I include the permit fee in the bid, meet the inspector, and keep the property owner out of it. Nothings worse than a property owner trying to argue with the inspector 'for me'.