Where's Waldo? Dishwasher and disposer circuits

[rickcastelli]

I have referenced NEC 2008 (as enforced currently in Virginia), state building codes and construction codes repeatedly, and I cannot find any precise section cites that verify this statement on this website: "The small appliance circuit cannot supply appliances such as disposals, dishwashers, hood fans, or lighting outlets." What is/are the section cite(s)? Thanks!

 

[charlie b]

210.52(B)(2).

Please be advised that forum rules allow us to point out code citations to anyone who asks. But they do not allow us to provide how-to assistance to persons who are not authorized (licensed) in their jurisdictions to perform electrical work. That may impact our ability to assist you with other questions. It would help if we knew if you were licensed as an electrician.

 

[rickcastelli]

Thanks

Thanks

Thank you for that. As an experienced paralegal and realtor/investor/handyman, I know how to parse legal language. NEC 2008 has no language whatsoever for specifically excluding disposers or dishwashers from being serviced by the small appliance circuits, nor does it define the term "small appliance." Therefore, Mike Holt's statement is not precise, which is unforgivable for his website's stature. Yes, it is correct regarding vent hoods (which is ridiculous in itself since they are such small power loads), and lighting. Can't trust anybody, even the experts.

 

[david luchini]

Thank you for that. As an experienced paralegal and realtor/investor/handyman, I know how to parse legal language. NEC 2008 has no language whatsoever for specifically excluding disposers or dishwashers from being serviced by the small appliance circuits, nor does it define the term "small appliance." Therefore, Mike Holt's statement is not precise, which is unforgivable for his website's stature. Yes, it is correct regarding vent hoods (which is ridiculous in itself since they are such small power loads), and lighting. Can't trust anybody, even the experts.

Charlie gave you the reference that excludes disposers, dishwashers, hood fans and lighting outlets from be supplied by small appliance branch circuits. I'd think the experts have this right.

 

[xformer]

Thank you for that. As an experienced paralegal and realtor/investor/handyman, I know how to parse legal language. NEC 2008 has no language whatsoever for specifically excluding disposers or dishwashers from being serviced by the small appliance circuits, nor does it define the term "small appliance." Therefore, Mike Holt's statement is not precise, which is unforgivable for his website's stature. Yes, it is correct regarding vent hoods (which is ridiculous in itself since they are such small power loads), and lighting. Can't trust anybody, even the experts.

IMHO, I think the NEC does address the excluding of disposers and dishwashers from being serviced by the small appliance branch circuits. It just doesnt address it from the perspective you are looking at it. The NEC by definition is not a design manual. It is just a rule book and I would argue that 110.3(B) would come into play here. Especially if the instructions for the equipment told the installer so.

 

[infinity]

Thank you for that. As an experienced paralegal and realtor/investor/handyman, I know how to parse legal language. NEC 2008 has no language whatsoever for specifically excluding disposers or dishwashers from being serviced by the small appliance circuits, nor does it define the term "small appliance." Therefore, Mike Holt's statement is not precise, which is unforgivable for his website's stature. Yes, it is correct regarding vent hoods (which is ridiculous in itself since they are such small power loads), and lighting. Can't trust anybody, even the experts.

This is from the 2008 NEC.

210.52(B) Small Appliances.
(2) No Other Outlets. The two or more small-appliance
branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no
other outlets.
Exception No. 1: A receptacle installed solely for the elec-
trical supply to and support of an electric clock in any of
the rooms specifi ed in 210.52(B)(1).
Exception No. 2: Receptacles installed to provide power
for supplemental equipment and lighting on gas-fi red
ranges, ovens, or counter-mounted cooking units.

 

[charlie b]

As an experienced paralegal and realtor/investor/handyman, I know how to parse legal language.

Thank you for sharing that information. Now please allow me to invite to your attention that the NEC was not written in legal language. So if you wish to understand its requirements, you would have to learn the language in which it was written. In order to do that, you would have to get training as an electrician or an electrical engineer. That is one of the reasons this forum is not allowed to be used to help persons who are not employed in the electrical industry to do their own electrical installation work.

 

[kwired]

Thank you for sharing that information. Now please allow me to invite to your attention that the NEC was not written in legal language. So if you wish to understand its requirements, you would have to learn the language in which it was written. In order to do that, you would have to get training as an electrician or an electrical engineer. That is one of the reasons this forum is not allowed to be used to help persons who are not employed in the electrical industry to do their own electrical installation work.

And from the same perspective I am not about to try to explain what information in some legal document means to anyone other than maybe close relatives, and may even take some caution in those cases. My wife was reading through some papers her mother had drawn up for her recently concerning her will and asked me what something meant, I told her what I thought it might mean but told her she may still want to ask the attorney to verify because I don't know their language all that well.

 

[kwired]

Thank you for that. As an experienced paralegal and realtor/investor/handyman, I know how to parse legal language. NEC 2008 has no language whatsoever for specifically excluding disposers or dishwashers from being serviced by the small appliance circuits, nor does it define the term "small appliance." Therefore, Mike Holt's statement is not precise, which is unforgivable for his website's stature. Yes, it is correct regarding vent hoods (which is ridiculous in itself since they are such small power loads), and lighting. Can't trust anybody, even the experts.

This is from the 2008 NEC.

(B)(2) you quoted says it shall serve no other outlets - with a couple exceptions,

(B)(1) tells us what the SABC's must supply:

(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry,
breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling
unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch
circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and
floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop
outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for
refrigeration equipment.

A dedicated outlet for a dishwasher or disposal or most anything else for that matter does not fit into what is required, and add (B)(2) and no other outlets are allowed, other than specifically what is mentioned in the exceptions.