Which breakers are compatible ?

[sw_ross]

Among Siemens, Eaton BR, and Homeline, are these all interchangeable?
Any others that I'm missing?

Thanks!

 

[Daniel malack]

Ask the supplier for documentation. On the specific breaker. I believe the BR is interchangeable. But the others may not be. I think GE is also covered under the BR interchangeability.

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[sw_ross]

I know one or two of these are interchangible, but not all three ( if I remember right, from past experience). I just don't remember which ones. Also I remember Some of these three being compatible with GE breakers?

 

[Daniel malack]

I purchased the cutler hammer BR it covered all breakers of same type. Cutler hammer is on the ball. They even manufactured a square D QO and released it the next day after the pattent ran out. I like CH except for their old B&S generator. They made a good move to the generac.

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[Smart $]

Google "circuit breaker cross reference" and you get plenty of hits to the information you seek. When you do use a cross referenced product, make certain you use the manufacturer (of the panel) cross reference. It shouldn't matter a whole lot, but there's a difference between being listed and "it fits". :happyyes:

 

[bsmith8691]

Being that most all circuits need to be Arc Fault protected save 2 pole circuits for now, Eaton makes the CL breaker that alleviates most of the concerns regarding compatibility. QO is still proprietary as far as I know.

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[curt swartz]

None of those breakers are automatically listed as being interchangeable with other manufactures. An Eaton BR is only listed for use with panels that accept type BR or type C breakers.

Eaton does make some Classified (CL) breakers for use with other manufactures load centers. The breaker instruction will include a list of exactly which load center it is classified for use with. A BR breaker is not a Classified breaker

Classified breakers contradict UL's own requirements. UL states that we must follow the instructions included with the equipment. The instructions with Square D load center state we must only use Square D breakers so to me that throws out the whole legitimacy of using classified breakers.

There are a few AHJ around me that will not accept classified equipment. Circuit breakers and recessed light trims are 2 items they closely watch.

 

[Coppersmith]

I carry a tray of all the common sizes of every common breaker brand on the truck. I never attempt to stick a breaker from another manufacturer in a panel unless they are approved to do so. I wish they were legally interchangeable. All those breakers take up a lot of room and they are heavy.

 

[Daniel malack]

We are talking past and present. If a breaker is UL listed today it negates past requirements.

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[curt swartz]

We are talking past and present. If a breaker is UL listed today it negates past requirements.

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Huh?

 

[GoldDigger]

To rephrase, possibly:

If, at the time of manufacture, a certain list of breakers was compatible, then if since that time additional breakers are listed by UL as replacements for any of the breakers on that list, the list should be considered expanded.

Similarly if the manufacturer's name for a breaker on the list is changed but the breaker remains identical, that newly named breaker should be considered as compliant with the list.

However, there does not appear to be any explicit NEC or UL language to that effect.
One more note: If the manufacturer adds to the compatible list, but does not re-issue and retrofit the existing compatibility labels, the new list should still apply.

 

[Smart $]

Huh?

+1

Here's what UL says...

CLASSIFIED MOLDED CASE CIRCUIT BREAKERS FOR USE IN SPECIFIED EQUIPMENT


97. Classified Only and Compatibility List - A circuit breaker that is Classified only is marked on the side with the statement:


"Classified for use only in specified panelboards where the available short-circuit current is 10 kA,
120/240 volts ac or less. Do not use in equipment connected to circuits having an available system short-circuit current in excess of 10 kA, 120/240 volts ac. For catalog numbers (or equivalent) of
specified panelboards, refer to Publication No. provided with this circuit breaker. If additional information is necessary, contact [Classified circuit breaker manufacturer's name]."


98. Classified and Listed Compatibility List - A circuit breaker that is both Classified and
Listed is marked on the side with the statement:


"This circuit breaker is Listed for use in circuit breaker enclosures and panelboards intended and marked for its use. This circuit breaker is Classified for use, where the available short-circuit current is 10 kA, 120/240 V ac or less, in the compatible panelboards shown in Publication No. provided with this circuit breaker. When used as a Classified circuit breaker, do not use in equipment connected to circuits having an available system short-circuit current in excess of 10 kA,
120/240 V ac. If additional information is necessary, contact [Classified circuit breaker manufacturer's name]."


99. Compatibility List - The referenced publication is a compatibility list which tabulates the company name, catalog number, number of poles and electrical ratings of the Classified circuit breaker, in addition to the company name and catalog number of the applicable UL Listed panelboards, and corresponding UL Listed circuit breakers in place of which the Classified circuit breaker has been investigated. The compatibility list also details the maximum permissible voltage and maximum available short circuit current of the supply system to the panelboard. The Classified circuit breaker is not suitable for the specified application if the system supply characteristics exceed the maximum values indicated in the compatibility list. One copy of the compatibility list is provided with each circuit breaker.


100. Classification and Listing Mark - Circuit breakers that are both Classified and Listed have markings as above, with the addition of the Listing Mark, located on the side of the circuit breaker.
The following mark: appears on the front, visible surface of the circuit breaker.


101. General Markings- These circuit breakers are also marked as outlined for all breakers. See items 1-7,14-21, 39-40, 42-43, 51-66 and 89-96.

 

[Daniel malack]

To rephrase, possibly:

If, at the time of manufacture, a certain list of breakers was compatible, then if since that time additional breakers are listed by UL as replacements for any of the breakers on that list, the list should be considered expanded.

Similarly if the manufacturer's name for a breaker on the list is changed but the breaker remains identical, that newly named breaker should be considered as compliant with the list.

However, there does not appear to be any explicit NEC or UL language to that effect.
One more note: If the manufacturer adds to the compatible list, but does not re-issue and retrofit the existing compatibility labels, the new list should still apply.

Correct!

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[Smart $]

To rephrase, possibly:

If, at the time of manufacture, a certain list of breakers was compatible, then if since that time additional breakers are listed by UL as replacements for any of the breakers on that list, the list should be considered expanded.

Similarly if the manufacturer's name for a breaker on the list is changed but the breaker remains identical, that newly named breaker should be considered as compliant with the list.

However, there does not appear to be any explicit NEC or UL language to that effect.
One more note: If the manufacturer adds to the compatible list, but does not re-issue and retrofit the existing compatibility labels, the new list should still apply.

Sorry, but I do not agree with this assessment. The breaker is furnished with a compatibility list at the time of manufacture. You cannot assume anything beyond what is on that compatibility list that comes with the breaker because it has not been investigated. See item 99 in the excerpt I quoted above.

 

[GoldDigger]

Sorry, but I do not agree with this assessment. The breaker is furnished with a compatibility list at the time of manufacture. You cannot assume anything beyond what is on that compatibility list that comes with the breaker because it has not been investigated. See item 99 in the excerpt I quoted above.

I was referring to overriding the list provided with the *panel* at time of manufacture.
I agree that the compatibility of the breaker is final as of the time of manufacture.
Limiting though it may be, an old model of a compatible breaker could not take advantage of an later expanded list for an identical breaker.

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[Daniel malack]

I was referring to overriding the list provided with the *panel* at time of manufacture.
I agree that the compatibility of the breaker is final as of the time of manufacture.
Limiting though it may be, an old model of a compatible breaker could not take advantage of an later expanded list for an identical breaker.

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The panel list in 1985 is irrelevant to a UL listing of 2017

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[Smart $]

I was referring to overriding the list provided with the *panel* at time of manufacture.
I agree that the compatibility of the breaker is final as of the time of manufacture.
Limiting though it may be, an old model of a compatible breaker could not take advantage of an later expanded list for an identical breaker.

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What compatibility list is furnished with and for a panelboard? If there is one furnished with a panelboard, it is for one or more breakers that come with the panelboard.

 

[GoldDigger]

What compatibility list is furnished with and for a panelboard? If there is one furnished with a panelboard, it is for one or more breakers that come with the panelboard.

Funny, the load centers I am familiar with all have a label somewhere indicating what breaker types and sizes can be added.

 

[Daniel malack]

Get over It! What is on the panel is irrelevant. What is allowable today! By today's standards.

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[norcal]

The 3 makes are "will fit" breakers if you do not give a rip about complying with UL listing or being UL classified to be used in competitive makes, from what I have been told SQ D does not seek to have their breakers UL classified because they are adamant that only SQ D breakers be used in their equipment. The only thing to do if the manufacturer is still around is use the same make breakers that the panel is, but what do you do if the MFG is defunct & the AHJ will not accept classified products? Then there is where due changes in ownership resulted in name changes like,ITE Circuit Breaker Co./ITE Imperial Corp./ Gould/ITE/ ITE Electrical Products/ Siemens, Murray/Crouse-Hinds/ Murray(Siemens), Bryant/Westinghouse/Cutler-Hammer/Eaton, come to mind then what is the solution?