While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

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aelectricalman

aelectricalman

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Why on earth would AFCI's be required only in bedrooms. Is this a preliminary for what is to come. Will we eventually have to have the whole darn house protected. Any circuit can become victim to a nail while hanging a picture, or the case of the bad drywallers. I hang pictures in my toilet area and in my living room. I hang things in my kitchen? Is this the quite before the storm?
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

When the new AFCIs have proven themselves, I suspect they will be used everywhere for 15 and 20 ampere circuits. Right now, they don't accomplish much. :D
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

Arc-Faults will be expanded through the new code cycles. By 2017 it should be throughout the dwelling. It just isn't the nails in the wall that will cause it to trip but alot of poor workmanship in the electrical trade. So be prepared to torque all receptacle screws to proper inch pounds, as I still have a stud that had poor connections on the receptacle and started a fire. So the Arc-Fault is here to stay.
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

In my opinion, gfci, afci, and tvss advancements are proof that grounding hasn't accomplished its intended objective.

I had a conversation with Mark Ode on the subject of "why only the bedrooms" and his statement was that bedrooms were believed to be the one area in a house that no one would question. Looks like that theory didn't work out.
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

Why on earth would AFCI's be required only in bedrooms.
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It all started with (don't laugh) electric blanket fires in Europe.

Ed

[ January 24, 2005, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: Ed MacLaren ]
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

Ed,
It all started with (don't laugh) electric blanket fires in Europe.
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If that is true, they really missed the mark as the currently available AFCI provides almost no protection for that condition. The fact that the currently available AFCIs do not provide the protection that many were led to believe that they did, is the reason for the requirement for combination type AFCIs starting 1/1/08. If the combination type AFCIs really do perform as advertised, then I expect that we will see expansion in the requirements for the 2011 and later codes.
Don
Don
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

I expect that we will see expansion in the requirements for the 2011 and later codes.
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That is very likely true.

I hope this isn't the method the industry has decided on to tackle the problem of the declining level of workmanship.

Ed
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

Since I do commercial and industrial work, I have never had to install an AFCI breaker. I was told that if you change a light bulb with the switch on, it will trip the AFCI. Is that true?
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

Lets keep in mind that we thought we would be seeing a lot more gfci in branch circuits,but that didn't happen.Personally i feel gfci should be on all branch circuits.While afci are not perfected yet they are a great start.
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

arc fault protection has evolved based upon a CPSC report that 40% ( I think) of the residential fires prior 1993 to 1994 were in the bed room area (or something like that) See the 1999 ROP. Of those fires approximately 320 resulted in loss of life. Granted a siqnificant number of the fires were as result of heat sources other than electrical wires, or failed electrical equipment. But if a death is involved there is tremendous pressure for the CMP to move forward and accept breaking technology.

As mentioned the Branch ? and Feeder OCPD do not fullfioll their promis. I have not found information as yet on the combination devices if some one has a page please let me know

Charlie
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

what is meant by the 05's inclusion in 210.12 about Branch/Feeder AFCI's permitted until 08'?
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

The combination type isn't on the market yet, so branch/feeder AFCI's have to be allowed in their place until they are for sale. It's essentially telling us that it will be code, and providing incentive for the manufacturers to move on it.
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

Originally posted by kpepin:
I was told that if you change a light bulb with the switch on, it will trip the AFCI. Is that true?
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They are obnoxious. They will lie to you when troubleshooting. I have personally witnessed a AFCI trip when I unscrewed and screwed in a light bulb.

Editted to add this link.

[ January 25, 2005, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

I was told that if you change a light bulb with the switch on, it will trip the AFCI. Is that true?
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Not very likely. The currently available AFCIs don't even start looking at the arc signature unless it exceeds 75A.
Don
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

I have heard a lot of talk about the "Combination" AFCI. What exactly does it does it do? Or should I say does it do two different things since it's called a combination?
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters, Combination Type - An AFCI which complies with the requirements for both branch/feeder and outlet circuit AFCIs. It is intended to protect downstream branch circuit wiring and cord sets and power-supply cords.
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One of the main differences is that the combination type looks at the arc signature starting at 5 amps, not 75 like the branch/feeder type that is now in use.
Don
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

Don,

Thanks for the reply. Now with the new ones starting to look at 5amps, wouldn't this make them even more prone to Nuisance tripping?
 
Re: While im on the subject, lets talk about AFCI's!

Probably but we are promised that they will work properly (I think I have heard that song before). :D
 
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