on a service call today I had a home owner recieving a small shock while in their whirlpool tub ( jaccuzi brand ) the pump motor is bonded back to the cold water line the pump is also on a gfi recp if I diconnect the bonding jumper I show 3.5 /4.5 volts between jumper and water line. If I put one probe in the water I show the same voltage. with everything back together and the main grnd cond loose from water service I show no voltage here. This voltage is present when the pump motor is unplugged. Any thoughts ideas would be helpfull
whirlpool tub
- Thread starter eric
- Start date
- Status
bill addiss
Senior Member
Re: whirlpool tub
eric,
Are they touching something when they get this shock?
You say the pump is bonded back to the cold water line. What does that mean? The connection is not at the Tub location?
Bill
eric,
Are they touching something when they get this shock?
You say the pump is bonded back to the cold water line. What does that mean? The connection is not at the Tub location?
Bill
Re: whirlpool tub
the bond is at the cold water line under the tub the owner is in the tub with the pump running and feels the tingle when adding more water. this is afiberglass tub with plastic covers on the fill spout and the water valves , the overlow and drain are stainless steel face , but plastic drain pipe
the bond is at the cold water line under the tub the owner is in the tub with the pump running and feels the tingle when adding more water. this is afiberglass tub with plastic covers on the fill spout and the water valves , the overlow and drain are stainless steel face , but plastic drain pipe
frenchelectrican
Senior Member
- Location
- Nord'est Wisconsin et Paris France
Re: whirlpool tub
eric what type of water pipe you have in that building ??? if all copper or plastic ??? and did you check the main grouning source and also what size bonding wire there ??? it should be # 8 bare soild wire there ?? but check it out again by the way what type of water heater it is ??? if electric better check out the grounding at water heater some case the element going bad or one of the leg is not really touching but some kind of moisture there to cause it.
bill sorry to bother you but there is any code required for water heater to use the "dielectric union" fitting or not? i am not too sure where i heard that ether plumming code or bulding code or nec i am not sure it sound like some kind of conflet there ( if i am wrong please let me know and i will appect my apogly )
merci marc
eric what type of water pipe you have in that building ??? if all copper or plastic ??? and did you check the main grouning source and also what size bonding wire there ??? it should be # 8 bare soild wire there ?? but check it out again by the way what type of water heater it is ??? if electric better check out the grounding at water heater some case the element going bad or one of the leg is not really touching but some kind of moisture there to cause it.
bill sorry to bother you but there is any code required for water heater to use the "dielectric union" fitting or not? i am not too sure where i heard that ether plumming code or bulding code or nec i am not sure it sound like some kind of conflet there ( if i am wrong please let me know and i will appect my apogly )
merci marc
abode electric
Member
- Location
- New jersey
Re: whirlpool tub
The cold water is bonded to the motor what about the hot? If they get the shock adding more water it's not cold water there adding.
The cold water is bonded to the motor what about the hot? If they get the shock adding more water it's not cold water there adding.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: whirlpool tub
Is it possible that there is a grounding to grounded connection on the load side of the service disconnecting means that is allowing normal operating circuit current to flow on the bonded parts of the electrical system? The homeowner will still have to be coming in contact with a grounded object and the current-carrying object to receive shock and I can't determine how this happening from your explanation.
Is it possible that there is a grounding to grounded connection on the load side of the service disconnecting means that is allowing normal operating circuit current to flow on the bonded parts of the electrical system? The homeowner will still have to be coming in contact with a grounded object and the current-carrying object to receive shock and I can't determine how this happening from your explanation.
Re: whirlpool tub
this is a main breaker panel so the only grounded to grounding connections are at the panel unless their is a bad make up somewhere, would'nt this voltage also show up at the connection of the main ground and waterline if they are undone. The hot water and cold water go to the same fill spout it appears that these to pipes are actually solderd together so would that not bond them together
this is a main breaker panel so the only grounded to grounding connections are at the panel unless their is a bad make up somewhere, would'nt this voltage also show up at the connection of the main ground and waterline if they are undone. The hot water and cold water go to the same fill spout it appears that these to pipes are actually solderd together so would that not bond them together
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: whirlpool tub
Is it possible that there is leakage current from the pump motor itself to the metallic parts? Even so, what conductive part is the homeowner touching that the owner makes a grounded path for this current to flow? The owner is touching the water and.........?
Is it possible that there is leakage current from the pump motor itself to the metallic parts? Even so, what conductive part is the homeowner touching that the owner makes a grounded path for this current to flow? The owner is touching the water and.........?
Re: whirlpool tub
the owner is in the tub and gets shocked when adding water I dont see where the return path would be unless it is through the water coming out of the spout. My meter shows some voltage with the motor unplugged and water in the tub this reading is taken from the water to the cold water fill pipe with the bond removed
the owner is in the tub and gets shocked when adding water I dont see where the return path would be unless it is through the water coming out of the spout. My meter shows some voltage with the motor unplugged and water in the tub this reading is taken from the water to the cold water fill pipe with the bond removed
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: whirlpool tub
Eric
Is the waterline the electrode?
Was your disconnection made there?
Is there a bond from the cold to the hot?
Mike P.
Eric
Is the waterline the electrode?
Was your disconnection made there?
Is there a bond from the cold to the hot?
Mike P.
txsparky
Member
- Location
- Conroe, Texas
Re: whirlpool tub
It sounds like possibly a bad element in an electric water heater.Is there a bonding jumper between the hot and cold water lines at the water heater? Is there a water well involved ? ( I have heard of similiar situations where the problem originated at the neighbors well )
It sounds like possibly a bad element in an electric water heater.Is there a bonding jumper between the hot and cold water lines at the water heater? Is there a water well involved ? ( I have heard of similiar situations where the problem originated at the neighbors well )
gary
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Retired electrical contractor / general contractor
Re: whirlpool tub
Eric
Did you feel this "tickle" yourself? Maybe what the owner is feeling is a vibration from the pump motor.
Eric
Did you feel this "tickle" yourself? Maybe what the owner is feeling is a vibration from the pump motor.
Re: whirlpool tub
680.74 Bonding.
All metal piping systems, metal parts of electrical equipment, and pump motors associated with the hydromassage tub shall be bonded together using a copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid. Metal parts of listed equipment incorporating an approved system of double insulation and providing a means for grounding internal nonaccessible, non?current-carrying metal parts shall not be bonded.
you should bond hot, cold water pipe, motor, electric pipe, DRAIN PIPE, associated water heaters if a part of the tub.
680.74 Bonding.
All metal piping systems, metal parts of electrical equipment, and pump motors associated with the hydromassage tub shall be bonded together using a copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid. Metal parts of listed equipment incorporating an approved system of double insulation and providing a means for grounding internal nonaccessible, non?current-carrying metal parts shall not be bonded.
you should bond hot, cold water pipe, motor, electric pipe, DRAIN PIPE, associated water heaters if a part of the tub.
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