White conductor

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wwhitney said:
Well, I took another look at what is written and still disagree. In the 2008 NEC, 200.7(C) reads:

"The use of insulation that is white or gray or that has three continuous white stripes for other than a grounded conductor for circuits of 50 volts or more shall be permitted only as in (1) through (3)."

I read this as 3 separate permissions: "you can only do this if you meet (1), (2) or (3)." If the permission granted by 200.7(C)(1) was meant to be limited to those cases that don't fall under 200.7(C)(2), then 200.7(C)(1) should say so explicitly. Or 200.7(C) should read "where all of the following conditions are met". That would be my take on how Charlie's Rule applies to this text.
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IMO rather than "you can only do this if you meet (1), (2), or (3)." it is "you can only do this if you meet (1), (2), and (3)." (2) and (3) limit themselves by starting out with "where....", and so they do not always apply, but in cases where (2) does apply, it becomes more restrictive that (1) alone.
 
I have seen many 3 way switches where it was 3 wire from switch to fixture box and 3 wire from fixture box to other switch. Feed could be from either switch. I have used this method many times.. are they all wrong?? :-?
 
BLACK4TRUCK said:
I have seen many 3 way switches where it was 3 wire from switch to fixture box and 3 wire from fixture box to other switch. Feed could be from either switch. I have used this method many times.. are they all wrong?? :-?
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Not as long as the white conductors were used for only two purposes: Supplying the 'neutral' to the load, and supplying the hot to the common of the 3-way not feeding the load.

With the feed at the 'end' 3-way, the white is neutral all the way. With the feed at the 'near' 3-way, one white supplies the load, and the other supplies the 'far' 3-way with power.
 
You'd be amazed, or maybe you wouldn't, at how many people don't have the slightest clue how to do 3 ways.
 
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daleuger said:
You'd be amazed, or maybe you wouldn't, at how many people don't have the slightest clue how to do 3 ways.
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I am more amazed at the employers that hire men that only know 1 way to do a 3 way. Try telling a guy that even has 10 years in trade to make it a dead end 3 way and you get that crazy look in the eyes ,DO WHAT. Employers today are more interested in finding $10 hour men that know little than to hire a $20 that get's it done faster,to code,and without needing help.
 
The original question was about using a white conductor for the swith leg. A white conductor identifies a grounded conductor. 404.2(B) specifically states that a switch shall not disconnect a grounded conductor. The switch leg should be the ungrounded conductor which will the black conductor and the white conductor returning from the switch should be reidentified as such.
 
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bobserrano said:
The original question was about using a white conductor for the swith leg. A white conductor identifies a grounded conductor. 404.2(B) specifically states that a switch shall not disconnect a grounded conductor. The switch leg should be the ungrounded conductor which will the black conductor and the white conductor returning from the switch should be reidentified as such.
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And we all know why it would be a really really bad idea to switch the neutral don't we?
 
I am more amazed at the employers that hire men that only know 1 way to do a 3 way. Try telling a guy that even has 10 years in trade to make it a dead end 3 way and you get that crazy look in the eyes ,DO WHAT. Employers today are more interested in finding $10 hour men that know little than to hire a $20 that get's it done faster,to code,and without needing help.
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Thought it was just a "west coast problem". Contractors looking for "installers", don't need no stinking electricians! Guess it's the brave new world...
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
make it a dead end 3 way
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Jim,

Let's see now, how many ways can there be?
(1) Live End 3-way
_________________(feed at the near end, and load at the far end),
(2) Strung Out 3-way
_________________(load in the middle)
(3) Dead End 3-way
_________________(load and feed at same end),
(4) California 3-way
_________________(no neutral carried, and non-code),
(5) Tennessee 3-way
_________________(two strings tied to a pull-chain fixture, code not required),
oh! this hurts my head!
 
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