My men are on a job when they notice the deadfront had been removed from our temporary panel. Apparently the foam insulator needed 220 and instead of coming to us installed his own breaker and hardwired his machine into that breaker and did not replace the cover, which is difficult to do obviously with a cord wired directly into the breaker. My guy turned the breaker off, removed the wire, and closed the panel back up. The foam guy start yelling about how he does this on all the jobs and its never been a problem. Now he is claiming that we burned his equipment up when we unlanded the wires. My most trusted foreman watched as our guy turned the breaker off and unhooked the wires. Question #1 : Am I justified in telling the foam guy to take a hike, stay out of our panel. Question #2 Even if by some divine intervention we did burn his equipment up(which I would like him to explain how we did other than by single phasing it) should I really care?
Who is at fault?
- Thread starter LazyS
- Start date
- Status
What type of license does he have that would allow him to open your panel and install a circuit breaker? You have electricians on the job that could have done it for him in a code complient method. Was it even 3 phase equipment? Have him turn it in to his insurance company.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I would tell him to get bent and if he continued I would let the inspector know that there is an unlicensed unpermitted guy doing work here.
Chenley
Member
- Location
- Western KY
Tell him to take a hike, he probably wasn't permitted to be in the panel in the first place.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
Kindly ask him how turning off the equipment "dangerously connected " harmed his equipment.
next time he needs to ask the foreman or EC or whoever is incharge of the temp power to supply the proper outlet.
next time he needs to ask the foreman or EC or whoever is incharge of the temp power to supply the proper outlet.
ItsHot
Senior Member
- Location
- A little piece of heaven!
Tell this clown to stick to foam!
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
So far, we've got a bent, a hike, a stick, a pack and two asks.
Any other opinions?
(I agree with the others, by the way.)
Any other opinions?
(I agree with the others, by the way.)
cschmid
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern cold country
What I think is you're foreman made a mistake here..First I think you're foreman should of walked over and explained the situation politely and in the process ask him to shut down the spray session as soon as possible with out harming the equipment. so you can disconnect the non code compliant connection. if he did not comply then call the inspector and explain to him the situation and let him deal with it. Now you shut down a sprayer in the middle of a process and that could of damaged the blower as it was full of product.
so regardless of whether he was wrong or not you could actually have to pay for his equipment even if he gets fined for doing an illegal connection you have a high percentage of loosing some cash here.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Where's the "Do not shut down!" sign?
ultramegabob
Senior Member
- Location
- Indiana
Two people can play that game... how much will it cost to replace the panel that they damaged the buss bars in when they installed their crusty old breaker they use on all they jobs they do? Im guessing they over torqued they terminals on the neutral and ground busses, heck while they were in there, they must have nicked up a bunch of home runs that will need replaced also.....
cschmid
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern cold country
:grin: I do not make the rules..But i did assume it was spray on foam and not blow in fiber..sprayon foam could be an issue blow in fiber non issue.
It was spray on foam. And being my foreman saw an immediate danger, he shut down power without letting them know first. And that is our panel, we do reserve the right to shut down power at any time if we feel that safety warrants it. If something happened while we were going through the proper channels, who is going to get blamed for it. We would.
How does the contract address the temporary?
AV ELECTRIC
Senior Member
Its the job site panel its on lease to the company who pays you. You are not responsible for safety on the job site thats the general you are just a sub like the spray guy unless your the general contractor. If you have a problem with safety you need to go to the super and let that person know. If you see a damaged cord plugged into your temp receptical do you pull it out? its not your job.
Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
The Temp panel is the private property of the EC. As far as I'm concerned, foam boy was trespassing.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
I know having product in the pump is not good for the foam sprayer, but I know also there are alternatives to recover from this and they should have done this or they will be replacing the sprayer pump every time the power goes out for other reasons.
Just ask them what would they do if the power went out from other causes? if they say we would put in a solvent to keep the foam from hardening, then ask why they didn't do it this time?
you have the right to prevent a hazard, a little tact might have gone a long way to avoid having all the upset people and damaged equipment you now have, and maybe even having a GC getting upset with you or your company for acting in such a direct demanding way. putting a man to guard the panel till the offender is notified he was being disconnected from power would have made a much better stance in the eyes of others, and would have made the situation much more calmer.
I just like to handle stuff like this in a more assertive way, and working together with other trades helping them to achieve there needs as well as helping them to understand the dangers and the liability of doing dangerous hook ups like that, and what could happen if a person was to be injured or killed because of it, paints a much better view of you and your company to those who see or is told of what happened.
I know it was upsetting to see someone hook up like this, but remember this is what there use to, so educate them on the danger of it, and that doing this can get people hurt or killed, and can land the offender in prison.
I'm not a passive person, I know when to be assertive. but I also know that being aggressive will never solve any problems in a good way, the outcome is always the same, many upset people, and even a few lost jobs, all because of being too aggressive when dealing situations like this.
Just ask them what would they do if the power went out from other causes? if they say we would put in a solvent to keep the foam from hardening, then ask why they didn't do it this time?
you have the right to prevent a hazard, a little tact might have gone a long way to avoid having all the upset people and damaged equipment you now have, and maybe even having a GC getting upset with you or your company for acting in such a direct demanding way. putting a man to guard the panel till the offender is notified he was being disconnected from power would have made a much better stance in the eyes of others, and would have made the situation much more calmer.
I just like to handle stuff like this in a more assertive way, and working together with other trades helping them to achieve there needs as well as helping them to understand the dangers and the liability of doing dangerous hook ups like that, and what could happen if a person was to be injured or killed because of it, paints a much better view of you and your company to those who see or is told of what happened.
I know it was upsetting to see someone hook up like this, but remember this is what there use to, so educate them on the danger of it, and that doing this can get people hurt or killed, and can land the offender in prison.
I'm not a passive person, I know when to be assertive. but I also know that being aggressive will never solve any problems in a good way, the outcome is always the same, many upset people, and even a few lost jobs, all because of being too aggressive when dealing situations like this.
iMuse97
Senior Member
- Location
- Chicagoland
Wood flooring guys I know routinely hook up their 240V sanders with alligator clips to the buss bars.
I don't like to see it, and tell them so, but I have to work with the GC again, and he likes his flooring guy.
I agree that the foamer was "tresspassing", but I doubt there was an immediate danger that could not have been remedied in another way.
I wouldn't like it one bit if someone was messing with my panel, but I think Wayne has the right idea.
You have to present yourselves as the electric professionals and instruct the novices the same as you
would if the GC himself walked in there and hooked up a 240 breaker (which actually happened to me).
I don't like to see it, and tell them so, but I have to work with the GC again, and he likes his flooring guy.
I agree that the foamer was "tresspassing", but I doubt there was an immediate danger that could not have been remedied in another way.
I wouldn't like it one bit if someone was messing with my panel, but I think Wayne has the right idea.
You have to present yourselves as the electric professionals and instruct the novices the same as you
would if the GC himself walked in there and hooked up a 240 breaker (which actually happened to me).
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