who should pay for my time

[rickl]

here is the situation
i wired up a septic pumping system 120 volt pump & 3 floats ( pump on, pump off & high level alarm) at a new house, power was not turned on at the house at the time of completion so i couldn't test the system. 3 weeks later when the power is turned on, the high level alarm goes on, homeowner calls the engineer who come out and looks it over and say's the whole system is wired wrong. H/O calls me not to happy about my work, next day i show up and start looking over my work checking to make sure i didn't screw up , made sure the floats ( installed by someone else) were working. thats when i noticed the alarm float was N.C. contacts, so called the engineer back he's out of the office so i talked to his partner he said thats the way it should be. so i spend another hour checking all my connections making sure i didn't miss label a wire. so then i call the manufactor of the system tell them what i have they say the alarm float should be N.O. (what i thought) so i call the engineer back he agrees that the wrong float was installed. so here's the question who should pay for my 3 hours i wasted troubleshooting somebody else's screw up homeowner, engineer, or the people who installed the floats.

 

[Smart $]

IMO, the people that installed the wrong float, provided the wrong float was something other than specified. If the wrong float was specified, the engineer.

Don't sell yourself short on the time. I'm assuming you didn't change the float since it was not in the scope of your work. So you will probably have additional time in disconnecting old/reconnecting new.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

IMO, there are really 2 questions.

1) Who should you charge.
2) Who is responsible for paying for the screw up.

1) I think you should charge whomever you are working for and they can sort out #2.

 

[Kessler4130]

The engineer, inaccurately diagnosed the problem as being your fault, I would charge them. They should have either properly diagnosed the problem or payed you to diagnose it, 3 hrs is 3 hrs and someone needs to pay for it.

 

[bikeindy]

IMO, there are really 2 questions.

1) Who should you charge.
2) Who is responsible for paying for the screw up.

1) I think you should charge whomever you are working for and they can sort out #2.

I agree with this it is the quickest way to get paid.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I take a different approach to it. I would probably let the Ho, septic guy, and engineer know it wasn't my screw up and let it go. I do many private custom homes and I sometimes get call backs for stuff that isn't my responsibility. I figure the good will with people I work with is more important than the money-- but of course I will never get rich. Life isn't always about money.

 

[romexking]

Charge whomever you are working for...send the bill immediately, and don't return to the job until you are paid or receive a written adjustment to your contract amount.

 

[growler]

H/O calls me not to happy about my work

I say the homeowner pays. That's because I always get a check before I leave the job with a homeowner ( no billing ). I would explain the situation on the invoice and let the homeowner know that they should collect from who ever is at fault. The engineer pointed the finger at you and this is a way of making sure that the homeowner knows who really messed up.
Make sure the homeowner knows that you do honor your warranty and if there ever is a problem that's covered, it will be repaired at no charge.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

I take a different approach to it. I would probably let the Ho, septic guy, and engineer know it wasn't my screw up and let it go. I do many private custom homes and I sometimes get call backs for stuff that isn't my responsibility. I figure the good will with people I work with is more important than the money-- but of course I will never get rich. Life isn't always about money.

Actually, Dennis makes a very good point here. I think he really has the right approach.

 

[LarryFine]

Similarly, what about when, let's say, a brand-new breaker is defective, not discovered until energization, and you had to drive 45 minutes each way to replace it? How is the value of that time recovered?

 

[growler]

Similarly, what about when, let's say, a brand-new breaker is defective, not discovered until energization, and you had to drive 45 minutes each way to replace it? How is the value of that time recovered?

When a breaker is defective it was the contractor that sold the breaker with a mark up. This is how you cover the cost of warranty with the mark up of materials.

If I didn't furnish the breaker then there would be a charge to replace it.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Actually, Dennis makes a very good point here. I think he really has the right approach.

Thanks Lou

Similarly, what about when, let's say, a brand-new breaker is defective, not discovered until energization, and you had to drive 45 minutes each way to replace it? How is the value of that time recovered?

Obviously it's not. You know the manufactrer will not reimburse you and most people have a one year warranty (I do) on parts-- not light bulbs. This is why we mark up materials-- to make a profit and to cover those extra trips when we need to. Hopefully, we have very few call backs.

On Another Note
I have to be honest--this forum is a wonderful tool for me and I have learned a tremendous amount, however it concerns me with the attitude about money. It feels like many are saying grab the money from whomever you can without any concern for good will or the working relationship one has with others. It ain't about the money and screwing whoever is the easiest to screw. That thinking disgusts me. Maybe I am just naive.

 

[growler]

It ain't about the money and screwing whoever is the easiest to screw. That thinking disgusts me. Maybe I am just naive.

I don't think it's about scewing anyone it's about fair business practices.
If you sell someone an item that is defective then it should be replaced but if a homeowner buy a cheap fixture or fan an it goes out in 6 months ( due to no fault of the contractor ) then it's not the contractor's responsibility.

If this problem had been the fault of the electrical contractor then it should be repaired free of charge. You can't warranty the work of others. They need to stand behind their own work.

 

[petersonra]

IMO, there are really 2 questions.

1) Who should you charge.
2) Who is responsible for paying for the screw up.

1) I think you should charge whomever you are working for and they can sort out #2.

I think he has it.

 

[petersonra]

Similarly, what about when, let's say, a brand-new breaker is defective, not discovered until energizing, and you had to drive 45 minutes each way to replace it? How is the value of that time recovered?

IMO, part of the job of the installing contractor is to insure the parts they supply are not only installed but functioning properly. This seems to be correctly placed on the EC's back.

I might buy this is someone else's problem if someone else supplied the defective parts. I do not believe a contractor has an obligation to repair/replace defective parts supplied by someone else. That should be T&M.

But, all this stuff should be covered in your contract up front, so it is not a surprise to anyone.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If this problem had been the fault of the electrical contractor then it should be repaired free of charge. You can't warranty the work of others. They need to stand behind their own work.

I agree and if this were to happen often I would charge but I have to work with these working people and I find it hard to charge them. If they went out there and found out you miswired something you wouldn't want to be charged. That is the relationship I have built with my builders and their subs. If a plumber cuts my wire I go back and fix it-- no questions-- if it is habitual that is another story but we all make mistakes.

The HO is in a quandry on who to call. If the a/c does not work who should they call first. The first person they call decides its the others problem and the HO (who hopefully you have made a fair profit from and want to get business in the future from) is stuck paying for two services calls. They already spent a fortune on the house and are usually very stressed out at this point.
If they buy the light fixtures then I charge them but before they buy the fixtures I warn them if anything goes wrong with them or if a part is missing it will be at their expense.

I am not upset with collecting the money either it is the way it is often presented in the forum. Get paid and get out of there--- but if I had to answer the OP question I would say you charge whoever called you to come there but I wuld explain to them if it was not your problem there would be a charge. This may alleviate any hard feelings.

 

[growler]

If a plumber cuts my wire I go back and fix it-- no questions-- if it is habitual that is another story but we all make mistakes.

If a plumber cuts my wire and tells me before the sheet-rock goes up so that I don't need to look for the break it's no big deal. If the dry wall guys cover "A" box it's no big deal but when I have to spend time trouble-shooting probelms just because people are either stupid are careless I start to get in a bad mood.

We all make mistakes, true. When I make a mistake I own up to it and try to get it taken care of. I don't point a finger at others without knowing what I'm talking about like the engineer on this job did.

I still fly the Old American Flag, the one that say's " Don't tread on Me".

 

[cdslotz]

Yup. Charge the person you have a contract with. Do it soon. This person (GC) can backcharge the plumber or contractor that bought and installed the pump. If it was just put in, there's a good chance the plumber hasn't paid for the pump. He can withhold the backcharge to the manufactuer.
It all flows downhill.

 

[hillbilly]

I've installed a lot of sewer pumps.
I always check to be sure that they operate properly before I leave the job.
Sometimes it takes a water hose to fill it up and a extension cord to pump it down, but I've never been called back because it didn't start up, pump down and cut-off the first time it was used.
The alarm float is easy to check, all you have to do is lift it.
I'm with Dennis Alwon on the money deal.
steve

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I've installed a lot of sewer pumps.
I always check to be sure that they operate properly before I leave the job.
Sometimes it takes a water hose to fill it up and a extension cord to pump it down, but I've never been called back because it didn't start up, pump down and cut-off the first time it was used.
The alarm float is easy to check, all you have to do is lift it.
I'm with Dennis Alwon on the money deal.
steve

Thanks Steve. The only difference is that a sewer pump is not the same as a septic pump. The capacity of a septic tank is hugh and filling it up with a hose can take forever and then of course you need water. If there is no power at the house you have to hot wire the well pump(in most cases around here, if you have a septic system you also have a well) from the temporary pole.
In this area the house cannot get a final unless the health department comes out and checks the septic pump. Most of the time we have temporary power to the building (meter is set and we can energize Gfi Circuits, well, septic pump, and a 220 for the floor finishers-- a/c and heat also) and its not a problem but I have had to run a line from the temporary pole to hot wire the pump, if it is 220. If it is a 110 pump they just pull a drop cord out there.
Either way there is extra time involved and as someone said earlier just figure all that in your bid.
It is a tough situation as the OP said but sometimes you just have to grin and bear it--- sometimes BARE IT would be better.