Who wants to play?

Status
Not open for further replies.
celtic

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
The name of the game is:

How much does that 200A OH service really cost?
confusedbig.gif


Attached is a 30kb Word .doc

To play, simply download the file and fill in the blanks then upload it back to the forum :D

Filling in the blanks is pretty simple.
Just tell me some basics for an OH service:

Distance from:[IN FEET]
POA - Meter
Fittings Needed:[How Many?]
45?
90?
LB

Distance from:[IN FEET]
Meter - Panel
Fittings Needed:[How Many?]
45?
90?
LB

Grounding
Distance from: [IN FEET]
Rod - Panel
H? 0 - panel


Wiring Method: [Select one]
SE w/ 4/0 AL
PVC w/ 2/0 CU
EMT w/ 2/0 CU
RIGID w/ 2/0 CU


Panel Selection: [Select one]
Eaton
Murray
Homeline
QO
Westinghouse

Permits [How much money/time do you allot for these items?]
Application
Schedule Insp.
Insp


Rate [What you charge....these items are crucial for an accurate answer from ME]
Tax
Mark-Up

Breaker Selection: [Pick what you need..how many?]


Now comes the fun part....
banana.gif

You tell ME how much money and time it will take.
I will tell you how close you actually are!

So who is ready to play?
Download it
Fill it out
Upload it

I'll do my magic
lupe.gif
and post the results.


There will be some discrepancies!
Material cost do vary from region to region, as does some folks wiring methods, ease/difficulty of every service, etc
If I've built this thing right - in spite of the regional variations and the like - our numbers *should* be very very close...if the money is off, maybe the time will be correct?
Who knows?
Let's find out!

​
 
200A panels are a waste on most of the houses I encounter.

However, you would probably faint seeing what I charge for a 100A panel replacement!

~Matt
 
FWIW:

I try to mount a meter socket /main breaker on the outside, and chase nipple into the back of a 40 space QO panel. Usually that is placed so that I dont have to run or extend any of the original circuits, just drop them into the sub panel. For the meter main I try to use 1-1/4 for 100 services straight up out of the metermain. If I was running a 200A service, of course it would be 2". I pass the permit fees to the cust. And I charge anywhere from $2k to $3.5k for the work.

Tipically, there is around $600 in parts - depending how much I pay for the sub panel.

~Matt
 
TOOL_5150 said:
FWIW:

I try to mount a meter socket /main breaker on the outside, and chase nipple into the back of a 40 space QO panel. Usually that is placed so that I dont have to run or extend any of the original circuits, just drop them into the sub panel. For the meter main I try to use 1-1/4 for 100 services straight up out of the metermain. If I was running a 200A service, of course it would be 2". I pass the permit fees to the cust. And I charge anywhere from $2k to $3.5k for the work.

Tipically, there is around $600 in parts - depending how much I pay for the sub panel.

~Matt
Click to expand...

Also... I am not an EC, just an electrician working for an EC - so I just make my hourly wage for doing the work.

~Matt
 
TOOL_5150 said:
However, you would probably faint seeing what I charge for a 100A panel replacement!
Click to expand...
TOOL_5150 said:
..I just make my hourly wage for doing the work.

~Matt
Click to expand...

:-?
Well which is it?



j/k w/ya Matt :smile:



I had the thing "started" to do both 100 and 200...then I said ~ nobody puts in 100A panels anymore on a SFH.

Thanks for proving that theory of mine :mad:
:D
 
celtic said:
:-?
Well which is it?



j/k w/ya Matt :smile:



I had the thing "started" to do both 100 and 200...then I said ~ nobody puts in 100A panels anymore on a SFH.

Thanks for proving that theory of mine :mad:
:D
Click to expand...

Seems 100 amp is common in the North and 200 is common in the South.
100 amp was common here in the 50's with no electric heat or A/C. Now we are rippin' them out and installiing 200's
 
2" GRS mast $500, 200 amp meter socket with mast $800,
Full service upgrade to 200 amp w/ AFCI breakers & back to back $3200 +. Materials and permit cost about $1050. Not doing many of those at all. People are wondering how to keep what they have, not to mention improving what they have.

Yes I could do it for less. But why. If they cant afford this, they cant afford to do the job.
 
Couldn't download the attachment.

Services here are meter/panel combo, exterior, so it makes things MUCH easier.

It's also 150 degrees outside for half the year so it makes things MUCH more difficult.


Basic service. No additional circuits. No extras. (rare)

Seimans (copper bus) all in one panel 30 poles of breakers
6' 2" IMC riser
2" hub
30' 2/0 copper
Weather head
POA
Mast brace
2' roof jack
2 ground rods
60' #4 bare wire
2 acorns
2 pipe clamps
1 1/2" PVC fitting adapter
4' 1/2 PVC
1 1/2 one hole strap
4 3/8 x 2 1/2" sleeve anchors (block)
4 2" x 3/8" lags (framed)
1 2 1/2" snap in bushing :D

Inspections are scheduled same day
Hourly rate is $85 minimum, mark up is 100% minimum
Permit is about $50 via phone
Wild guess at materials $400
Job will take 2 men, worst case all day= 20 man hours...best case 1/2 that.

I believe we start at about $2500 and go up to 4-5K
 
480sparky said:
Too bad you didn't do it in Excel.... would have made calculations a whole let easier.
Click to expand...

ahhh young grasshopper does not think far ahead :D

OHserviceExcel1.jpg


OHserviceExcel2.jpg



The idea is to make it easy...so easy, I only want a bare minimum of information.
 
celtic said:
ahhh young grasshopper does not think far ahead :D
Click to expand...

I understand, Master Po, but why not provide an Excel attatchment instead of a Word document? Would that not make compilation, comparison and manipulation of the obtained data much easier and more efficient?
 
TOOL_5150 said:
200A panels are a waste on most of the houses I encounter.

However, you would probably faint seeing what I charge for a 100A panel replacement!

~Matt
Click to expand...
untill someone buys a Electric On Demand water heater. Or wonders why their lights go dim when they use the blender.
 
480sparky said:
I understand, Master Po, but why not provide an Excel attatchment instead of a Word document? Would that not make compilation, comparison and manipulation of the obtained data much easier and more efficient?
Click to expand...

Yes my young leaf jumper...but this bowl of rice is mine :D
 
celtic said:
I had the thing "started" to do both 100 and 200...then I said ~ nobody puts in 100A panels anymore on a SFH.
Click to expand...
In most cases probably correct for new homes. However, I just looked at replacing a service in a log cabin where the H/O decided to enclose the breaker panel with the same wood paneling as the inside of the house. So, now it becomes a question of "do you want a larger 150A or 200A panel or do you want me to put in whatever fits in the opening you currently have ?" If you want a bigger service you'll have to cut out the paneling and framing that goes along with it. I think I'll be installing a 100A MB panel.

BTW, I would have participated in your survey but I haven't broken service material down to finite components in many years now. My brain is already fried and I can't think in terms of single dollars. I usually round things off to the nearest $100.00 and if I'm off by a few bucks either way so be it.

Regards,

Phil
 
goldstar said:
BTW, I would have participated in your survey but I haven't broken service material down to finite components in many years now. My brain is already fried and I can't think in terms of single dollars. I usually round things off to the nearest $100.00 and if I'm off by a few bucks either way so be it.
Click to expand...

That's the beauty of it! [Supposedly :roll:]
MINIMAL information input....MAXIMUM information output.

Items like couplings, weather heads, duct seal, hubs, ground rods and acorns, lag bolts, etc....forget 'em.
Just tell it:
- how long from Point A to Point B
- any sweeps or LBs
- Length of grounding/bonding
- Type of panel
- Number and type of CBs

That's basically it.
Everything gets calculated based on those few items.
 
220/221 said:
Well....just toss some out and tell me if I am doing it right!
Click to expand...
Here is what I got...I entered NO TAX as it wasn't given...I did include 13 CBs, but I used a Eaton panel - NOT 3R, not a meter main:

220-221OHserviceExcel1.jpg


$2184 w/15 manhours.


How'd I do?
 
How'd I do?
Click to expand...

So....your program calculates the man hours acording to the materials used?

It sounds close. Our low is 2400-2500 up to 5000

Add a couple hours to load and clean out the truck and it's golden. Add lunch money in there too. Got to work straight thru if the place is occupied.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top