Whole house automation
- Thread starter kenro
- Start date
- Status
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: Whole house automation
sure.
sure.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Whole house automation
In my opinion, this market has hit a brick wall and doesn't have a quick recovery. About 5 maybe 10 years ago, the next great and wonderful thing was going to be the "smart house", and most if not all the current systems on the market are junk. The idea just simply hasn't taken hold in the residential industry.
I think structured wiring and wireless systems is a better market at this point and possibly over the next several years.
In my opinion, this market has hit a brick wall and doesn't have a quick recovery. About 5 maybe 10 years ago, the next great and wonderful thing was going to be the "smart house", and most if not all the current systems on the market are junk. The idea just simply hasn't taken hold in the residential industry.
I think structured wiring and wireless systems is a better market at this point and possibly over the next several years.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Whole house automation
For the most part I agree with the others on this. Total home automation is a tough sell. However, I use X-10 equipment often in areas where running wire is not practical. I've had both successes and failures with this gear. If you use any of the switch modules that have a dimming feature you have to be very careful. Most of them are only rated at 300 watts. I recently had to go and change out several that were installed by a homeowner (or landscape contractor) that were used to switch non-dimmable loads such as flood and landscape lights. They worked well for a while until they burnt up.
As was mentioned by others, this stuff gets very pricey. If you use the switches with the dimming feature (that are notorious for failing), they cost around $ 20.00 each (and don't require a neutral to operate). If you use the non-dimmable and better quality switch/relay type (which require a neutral to operate), they cost in area of $ 40.00 to $ 50.00 each. Then, there are a couple on "unknowns" when using this gear. If the switch doesn't work, or doesn't work every time, or doesn't work when certain household appliances are being used you may need one of the following : a) a network bridge - cost around $ 50.00, b) a signal amplifier - cost around $ 200.00 or c) noise filters for computers and TV's - cost around $ 25.00 each. Of course, you're not going to know this until you actually get on the job and discover the problem(s), or when the system fails after the homeowner actually moves in and plugs in all those items that weren't there when you did the original installation. So, after you've convinced your customer to spend several hundreds or thousands of dollars, you may end up trying to convincing them to spend a few hundred dollars more to make the system work properly.
I don't mean to dissuade you from using this equipment but you have to make an investment of some time and money (on a relatively small scale) and experience some of these things before going into it full force. I also have systems out there that are switching up to 16 different lighting scenes without any problems for several years now. One of the major problems that I see with this gear is that it is available to the general public (either on-line or in stores such as Radio Shack) and as such are either improperly installed or installed in the wrong application.
Hope this helps.
Phil,
Gold Star Electric
For the most part I agree with the others on this. Total home automation is a tough sell. However, I use X-10 equipment often in areas where running wire is not practical. I've had both successes and failures with this gear. If you use any of the switch modules that have a dimming feature you have to be very careful. Most of them are only rated at 300 watts. I recently had to go and change out several that were installed by a homeowner (or landscape contractor) that were used to switch non-dimmable loads such as flood and landscape lights. They worked well for a while until they burnt up.
As was mentioned by others, this stuff gets very pricey. If you use the switches with the dimming feature (that are notorious for failing), they cost around $ 20.00 each (and don't require a neutral to operate). If you use the non-dimmable and better quality switch/relay type (which require a neutral to operate), they cost in area of $ 40.00 to $ 50.00 each. Then, there are a couple on "unknowns" when using this gear. If the switch doesn't work, or doesn't work every time, or doesn't work when certain household appliances are being used you may need one of the following : a) a network bridge - cost around $ 50.00, b) a signal amplifier - cost around $ 200.00 or c) noise filters for computers and TV's - cost around $ 25.00 each. Of course, you're not going to know this until you actually get on the job and discover the problem(s), or when the system fails after the homeowner actually moves in and plugs in all those items that weren't there when you did the original installation. So, after you've convinced your customer to spend several hundreds or thousands of dollars, you may end up trying to convincing them to spend a few hundred dollars more to make the system work properly.
I don't mean to dissuade you from using this equipment but you have to make an investment of some time and money (on a relatively small scale) and experience some of these things before going into it full force. I also have systems out there that are switching up to 16 different lighting scenes without any problems for several years now. One of the major problems that I see with this gear is that it is available to the general public (either on-line or in stores such as Radio Shack) and as such are either improperly installed or installed in the wrong application.
Hope this helps.
Phil,
Gold Star Electric
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: Whole house automation
X-10 has been around for a long time, some of the radio hut equipment is not so great. Smart Home has the best line of home automation equipment get a catalog or browse on line. When you see the depth of the x-10 line there is lot more that can be done, IE more sales.
X-10 has been around for a long time, some of the radio hut equipment is not so great. Smart Home has the best line of home automation equipment get a catalog or browse on line. When you see the depth of the x-10 line there is lot more that can be done, IE more sales.
Re: Whole house automation
I have used x-10 stuff from home automation as well. I have found that the leviton x10 devices last longer than the x10 or other brand devices. These devices are VERY sensitive to moisture. So be careful where you use them. I have many jobs with these devices installed with out any problems and a few where no matter what I did it just would'nt work.
I have used x-10 stuff from home automation as well. I have found that the leviton x10 devices last longer than the x10 or other brand devices. These devices are VERY sensitive to moisture. So be careful where you use them. I have many jobs with these devices installed with out any problems and a few where no matter what I did it just would'nt work.
Re: Whole house automation
x10 is cool for people that like gadgets.
the high end leutron,leviton,smart home stuff is totally different and requires a structured installation. usually during new construction or gut rehab.
for the folks that spend $150,000 on the hometheater they will want this too. since a great deal of it is going to be used in that theater anyways. it seems every state has a handfull of $2 million plus homes.
nonethless it is a very limited market.
selling a several hundred dollar x10 system will allow you to make many more sales. but as some others touched on here it also may result in just as many unhappy customers.
i guess i'd just see if people ask for it. i wouldn't try to push a niche market for this stuff as a carrer choice though.
ron g.
x10 is cool for people that like gadgets.
the high end leutron,leviton,smart home stuff is totally different and requires a structured installation. usually during new construction or gut rehab.
for the folks that spend $150,000 on the hometheater they will want this too. since a great deal of it is going to be used in that theater anyways. it seems every state has a handfull of $2 million plus homes.
nonethless it is a very limited market.
selling a several hundred dollar x10 system will allow you to make many more sales. but as some others touched on here it also may result in just as many unhappy customers.
i guess i'd just see if people ask for it. i wouldn't try to push a niche market for this stuff as a carrer choice though.
ron g.
Re: Whole house automation
i installed some x-10 stuff quitea while ago. liked the simplicity. thought it would be great base for better quality concept. simple remote phone access outlets, switches and relays is a great middle-road-approach for automation.
before all the computerized stuff came on the market, wired whole electrical structure to cabinet of relays, all switches in lv wire. that is adaptable to any system. I think this is the base concept.
i may stand corrected, but i have heard that nasa can't read it's early programs and doesn't have equipment to read early stuff. why build a house with a technology that is predicated on a business paradigm of obsolescence(sp)?
i would think that any "smart" designer would design "smart" houses to be continuosly upgradable, all wiring devices individually terminated at control location.
this would also allow manufacturers to build to a standard. trying to be too smart has cost some companies big bucks only to be outdone by a common elec noise problem. A common base solution would benefit all as it would allow for modernization, upgrades, remodels, % of automation, plug and play systems development, a whole new boom in computerized equipment.
designers could still play with trying to beat noise problems and use stacked signals. BUT i think the problem is that all the elec equipment would have to be regulated not to send out stray signals in the same or near same frequency for that to be the long term solution.
the likelyhood of that is, well..
just as unlikely is the development of miniature opamp switches that can control heavy elecloads.
so the road to take to get everone used to the idea of "smart" houses is not to be so smart.
just my 3 cents
paul
i installed some x-10 stuff quitea while ago. liked the simplicity. thought it would be great base for better quality concept. simple remote phone access outlets, switches and relays is a great middle-road-approach for automation.
before all the computerized stuff came on the market, wired whole electrical structure to cabinet of relays, all switches in lv wire. that is adaptable to any system. I think this is the base concept.
i may stand corrected, but i have heard that nasa can't read it's early programs and doesn't have equipment to read early stuff. why build a house with a technology that is predicated on a business paradigm of obsolescence(sp)?
i would think that any "smart" designer would design "smart" houses to be continuosly upgradable, all wiring devices individually terminated at control location.
this would also allow manufacturers to build to a standard. trying to be too smart has cost some companies big bucks only to be outdone by a common elec noise problem. A common base solution would benefit all as it would allow for modernization, upgrades, remodels, % of automation, plug and play systems development, a whole new boom in computerized equipment.
designers could still play with trying to beat noise problems and use stacked signals. BUT i think the problem is that all the elec equipment would have to be regulated not to send out stray signals in the same or near same frequency for that to be the long term solution.
the likelyhood of that is, well..
just as unlikely is the development of miniature opamp switches that can control heavy elecloads.
so the road to take to get everone used to the idea of "smart" houses is not to be so smart.
just my 3 cents
paul
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