Who's Responsible

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Davebones

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North Of Tampa Fl
Have a class 1 div 2 area . They want to add some cameras in the class 1 div 2 room for some monitors so they can see the people inside incase something was to happen to someone . The person responsible for the data cables is getting pressure to install cameras that are not rated for this area . Someone thinks the price is too much so just use regular cameras . I told him he should tell his supervisor to send him a e-mail saying he takes responsibility should this ever become a issue . Any suggestions on how he should deal with this ?
 
I would not be installing something in a classified area that was unsuitable for that area whether someone emailed me and told me to do it or not.

There are plenty of suitable cameras available for such service.

One option to save money would be to install cameras just outside of the classified area and just zoom in. There are some relatively inexpensive cameras that can do that these days.

There might be other options as well.
 
If you can't put the camera outside the area, you can always put it in an enclosure with a window and Z purge it.

Don't put non rated stuff in a classified area.


RC
 
Sounds like they will also need cameras on the cameras so they can see what happened when one of them fails:roll:
 
Ragin Cajun said:
If you can't put the camera outside the area, you can always put it in an enclosure with a window and Z purge it.

Don't put non rated stuff in a classified area.


RC
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its an option, but to make it work requires clean oil free and moisture free air and few plants have that. it does not take long in many plants for the inside of purged boxes to become pretty oily. makes it tough to see through the window.
 
Davebones said:
Have a class 1 div 2 area . They want to add some cameras in the class 1 div 2 room for some monitors so they can see the people inside incase something was to happen to someone . The person responsible for the data cables is getting pressure to install cameras that are not rated for this area . Someone thinks the price is too much so just use regular cameras . I told him he should tell his supervisor to send him a e-mail saying he takes responsibility should this ever become a issue . Any suggestions on how he should deal with this ?
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I read only your post because im going to excercise a technique i sometimes have to use.

Have your customer respond to via email or other writting your concern and release you from all warranty and liability.
Be nice about it because you do want to maintain a decent relationship.

install said camera
 
petersonra said:
its an option, but to make it work requires clean oil free and moisture free air and few plants have that. it does not take long in many plants for the inside of purged boxes to become pretty oily. makes it tough to see through the window.
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Does said air have to come from the typical compressed air system? Why couldn't it come from some blower that does not inject any oil in any way? Condensation issues may be different with this method also.


jcassity said:
I read only your post because im going to excercise a technique i sometimes have to use.

Have your customer respond to via email or other writting your concern and release you from all warranty and liability.
Be nice about it because you do want to maintain a decent relationship.

install said camera
Click to expand...

That just creates one more hurdle for a prosecuting attorney but they can possibly still get over it, you as the professional are still supposed to know better than to install such a hazard, and that is what they will be trying to prove.
 
kwired said:
Does said air have to come from the typical compressed air system? Why couldn't it come from some blower that does not inject any oil in any way? Condensation issues may be different with this method also.
Click to expand...

One would think that would be workable but I am not real sure how to go about it.

Most times I just buy a packaged pressurization/purging system. All such systems I have seen use a pressurized gas supply.
 
petersonra said:
One would think that would be workable but I am not real sure how to go about it.

Most times I just buy a packaged pressurization/purging system. All such systems I have seen use a pressurized gas supply.
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Well sometimes just providing ventilation to a space will change the classification. You may need a way to prove that the ventilation is working or else the equipment has to be disabled if ventilation is not proven.
 
Actually this is not a contractor dealing with the plant owner . This is someone on the maintenance crew dealing with their imediate supervisor . I think he's being pressured to " Just Get It Done " .
 
kwired said:
That just creates one more hurdle for a prosecuting attorney but they can possibly still get over it, you as the professional are still supposed to know better than to install such a hazard, and that is what they will be trying to prove.
Click to expand...

Yep, Customer sign-off gets you nothing. You still knew it was wrong.
 
Davebones said:
Have a class 1 div 2 area . They want to add some cameras in the class 1 div 2 room for some monitors so they can see the people inside incase something was to happen to someone . The person responsible for the data cables is getting pressure to install cameras that are not rated for this area . Someone thinks the price is too much so just use regular cameras . I told him he should tell his supervisor to send him a e-mail saying he takes responsibility should this ever become a issue . Any suggestions on how he should deal with this ?
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To answer the title, the owner/operator of the facility is always responsible. Others may be added to the list, but the owner/operator always carries prime liability; i.e., their ignorance is no excuse, the supervisor's instructions notwithstanding.

Next, assuming the location is properly classified and documented as required [Section 500.4(B)] there is also no excuse for having an installation that is not suitable for the classification. [See Sections 500.1 and 500.8(A)] In this case, others have given several good alternatives. Failure to properly classify/document/install is general grounds for loss or denial of insurance and, depending on losses, possible civil and criminal penalties.

Personally, I would recommend hiring someone competent that can properly evaluate both the electrical area classification and the installation. (This is an engineering non-DIY comment;))
 
The area already is classified as Class 1 div 2 by a engineer when they built it . As the plant electrician they know I won't do anything in there that is not up to code . I feel the data guy is just being pressured to " Just Do It " as they are trying to save a few bucks . If he pushes back I think he's worried that down the road they will find a reason to let him go .
 
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