hey, i was just wondering why is 12gauge wire required in dining rooms and nooks by the kitchen in residential homes, when they actually are never used, by the home owners, just wondering why waste 12 wire when if it was upp to me id use 14gauge. if someone knows a quick answer it would be great please let me know. other than other than that its in the code. by the way its in california. thanks
why 12 wire in dining room?
- Thread starter wiredup
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
I'd guess that there is an assumption that larger wattage appliances, some that are typically used in the kitchen maybe used in dining rooms etc. I could see hot plates, microwaves or large coffee makers being used in these areas which when used together they might benefit from being on a 20 amp circuit.
I'd guess that there is an assumption that larger wattage appliances, some that are typically used in the kitchen maybe used in dining rooms etc. I could see hot plates, microwaves or large coffee makers being used in these areas which when used together they might benefit from being on a 20 amp circuit.
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
It might also be because it's required by 210.52. My guess is that it became a code requirement because people often plug in hot plates and other such things in dining rooms.
[ November 11, 2005, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: jeff43222 ]
It might also be because it's required by 210.52. My guess is that it became a code requirement because people often plug in hot plates and other such things in dining rooms.
[ November 11, 2005, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: jeff43222 ]
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
I agree with the first two posts. These are areas of potential food preparation where small appliances loads are likely. Maybe not as likely as the kitchen, but certainly more likely than a bedroom or living area.
I completely agree that the receptacles in these rooms are the most seldom used in a typical home, but when they are used, the loads are generally those that would be used in a kitchen.
I agree with the first two posts. These are areas of potential food preparation where small appliances loads are likely. Maybe not as likely as the kitchen, but certainly more likely than a bedroom or living area.
I completely agree that the receptacles in these rooms are the most seldom used in a typical home, but when they are used, the loads are generally those that would be used in a kitchen.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
warming trays,coffee brewers come to mind
warming trays,coffee brewers come to mind
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
Being that I am the oldest child I have been appointed the job that Mom took care of while her health lasted. Just like her I will ask at least two dozen times an hour, ?did you wash your hands?? Starting the morning of the 23rd of this month I will spend the day in the kitchen.
On the 24th there will be three coffee pots (regular, decaff and water for tea) three crock pots, two warming tables and a small steam table going in my kitchen and dinning room.
There are eight boys and two girls and all but one have grand children. People will start munching around 11:00AM and will dwindle through until about 9:00PM.
This same procedure will take place again around Christmas.
Thank God for 20 amp circuits!!!
Being that I am the oldest child I have been appointed the job that Mom took care of while her health lasted. Just like her I will ask at least two dozen times an hour, ?did you wash your hands?? Starting the morning of the 23rd of this month I will spend the day in the kitchen.
On the 24th there will be three coffee pots (regular, decaff and water for tea) three crock pots, two warming tables and a small steam table going in my kitchen and dinning room.
There are eight boys and two girls and all but one have grand children. People will start munching around 11:00AM and will dwindle through until about 9:00PM.
This same procedure will take place again around Christmas.
Thank God for 20 amp circuits!!!
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
How did I know a Rockwellian post from Mike was on it's way?
You get so sentimental about the dining room's SA receptacles....
How did I know a Rockwellian post from Mike was on it's way?
You get so sentimental about the dining room's SA receptacles....
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
You forgot the address....Originally posted by jwelectric:
On the 24th there will be three coffee pots (regular, decaff and water for tea) three crock pots, two warming tables and a small steam table going in my kitchen and dinning room.
This same procedure will take place again around Christmas.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
Ok, we'll just ignore that part.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
Amen to that!Originally posted by jwelectric:
Thank God for 20 amp circuits!!!
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
My Mom would disagree that they are not used.
At family get together she has coffee makers, hot plates, warming trays etc all out in the dinning room.
Why not?
My Mom would disagree that they are not used.
At family get together she has coffee makers, hot plates, warming trays etc all out in the dinning room.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
Actually it would be best to pick up one dining outlet on the way to each SA headed to the kitchen.Now they have a better chance should someone perhaps have a toaster,coffee maker and micro wave in that dining room.Kitchens,nooks and dining room can never be over wired.
Actually it would be best to pick up one dining outlet on the way to each SA headed to the kitchen.Now they have a better chance should someone perhaps have a toaster,coffee maker and micro wave in that dining room.Kitchens,nooks and dining room can never be over wired.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
I agree that dining room receptacles are rarely used, and will often place them on the refrigerator circuit, which also does not require GFCI protection.
I agree that dining room receptacles are rarely used, and will often place them on the refrigerator circuit, which also does not require GFCI protection.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
No way would i put it on the frig circuit.GFCI is not an issue.Nothing wrong in the dining room being gfci protected,actually it's safer.If you run it to dining room first it won't be gfci till the first outlet that you install a gfci receptacle.Personally i don't want to ever see anything else on a frig circuit.Too much at risk if it trips and we don't notice it for 12 hours.
No way would i put it on the frig circuit.GFCI is not an issue.Nothing wrong in the dining room being gfci protected,actually it's safer.If you run it to dining room first it won't be gfci till the first outlet that you install a gfci receptacle.Personally i don't want to ever see anything else on a frig circuit.Too much at risk if it trips and we don't notice it for 12 hours.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
Have you ever even looked at a refrigerator nameplate? :roll:
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
The decision to use the fridge or S.A. circuits has no steady rule of thumb Appliances used size of home,kitchen,room configuration.These all need to be addressed.
The decision to use the fridge or S.A. circuits has no steady rule of thumb
Appliances used size of home,kitchen,room configuration.These all need to be addressed.jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: why 12 wire in dining room?
"Have you ever even looked at a refrigerator nameplate? "
It has nothing to do with the frig name plate.It has everything to do with the name plate of that Mr coffee (hugs)and that toaster that might be on with it at defrost time.Your asking for problems should the total get over 20 amps.Had an inspector warn me about doing this.To try and save money on some town houses i put the frig on a SA.
He said fine Jim but when i do the final and that new frig is there i am looking at its specs.If it says dedicated circuit i will tag it.
Usually i pull a 12-3 to the frig box then drop the red off for frig and grab the first outlet next to it.No time lost and for price of a breaker and wire i made a better job.
We never know just where and what will be plugged in on a kitchen counter.
"Have you ever even looked at a refrigerator nameplate? "
It has nothing to do with the frig name plate.It has everything to do with the name plate of that Mr coffee (hugs)and that toaster that might be on with it at defrost time.Your asking for problems should the total get over 20 amps.Had an inspector warn me about doing this.To try and save money on some town houses i put the frig on a SA.
He said fine Jim but when i do the final and that new frig is there i am looking at its specs.If it says dedicated circuit i will tag it.
Usually i pull a 12-3 to the frig box then drop the red off for frig and grab the first outlet next to it.No time lost and for price of a breaker and wire i made a better job.
We never know just where and what will be plugged in on a kitchen counter.
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