Why GFCIs on 240 volt equipment?

mbrooke

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Does anyone know the NEC's reasoning behind expanding GFCIs to equipment over 120 volts? Hard wired equipment? Industrial equipment?
 

Beaches EE

Senior Member
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NE Florida
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Electrical Engineer / Facilities Manager
I believe there were some instances of electric shock that the CMP believes can be avoided with GFCI protection on circuits of 250 volts or less.
 

mbrooke

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Spa is a good one...
Given how dangerous even a listed body of water is, I'd say thats one place where they actually belong. In an ideal world we would not be allowed to have electricity in pools, spas, hydro-message tubs, ect.
 

garbo

Member
Does anyone know the NEC's reasoning behind expanding GFCIs to equipment over 120 volts? Hard wired equipment? Industrial equipment?
Believe hard wired 208 or 240 volt ranges and dryers do not need GFCI protection under the 2020 NEC but think this is a mistake. GFCI'S can be a pain in you know where but safe thousands of luves a year.
 

mbrooke

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Believe hard wired 208 or 240 volt ranges and dryers do not need GFCI protection under the 2020 NEC but think this is a mistake. GFCI'S can be a pain in you know where but safe thousands of luves a year.
Yup. They have saved thousands of lives where an EGC was or is not present. Two prong none double insulated tools being a biggy.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Residential Dishwashers are a different breed. I’ll have to look to see if commercial units need GFCI.
Dishwasher was added because of a product issue that should have been taken care of by product recalls, it wasn't even shock hazard that triggered this but rather component failure that can end up starting a fire, but GFCI can respond to that failure.

And it is mostly receptacles but as 2020 is worded the typical outdoor AC unit will require GFCI also, supposedly triggered by one electrocution where EGC was not present or failed or something.

Ranges as I see it will require GFCI if the receptacle is within six feet of sink, or if the range is in a garage, basement, or other area that would trigger GFCI requriements as a general rule.

Dryer requires it because it is in the laundry area. If you can say the dryer is not in the laundry area you may not have to do it, but good luck trying to sell that one.

Range or dryer would not need GFCI if hardwired, but who wants to have them hard wired? If you do hard wire them then you need to consider disconnecting means requirements.
 

mbrooke

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Dishwasher was added because of a product issue that should have been taken care of by product recalls, it wasn't even shock hazard that triggered this but rather component failure that can end up starting a fire, but GFCI can respond to that failure.

Probably so :(

 

mbrooke

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Any chance breaker manufacturer profits had anything to do with it?
Good question. I mean if they are trying to solve a particular problem, there is more than on way to do it. Mandating a specific device for that solution would certainly be manufacturers at work.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Any chance breaker manufacturer profits had anything to do with it?
You mean the same ones that were major players in getting AFCI requirements into code?

What they going to do if someday they are mandated to do some sort of recall on products that are already 10+ years old.

Has happened with airbags and other safety components in some older vehicles.
 

mbrooke

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You mean the same ones that were major players in getting AFCI requirements into code?

What they going to do if someday they are mandated to do some sort of recall on products that are already 10+ years old.

Has happened with airbags and other safety components in some older vehicles.
I think Square D had a blue or green button AFCI on recall a decade ago.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,Ga

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I think Square D had a blue or green button AFCI on recall a decade ago.
for what reason? Recall to the entire line or just certain lot numbers that maybe were discovered to have a defect? They do recall other products within certain production dates at times because they found something defective that likely effected the entire lot.

Getting reimbursed sometimes has been tricky, enough that I am not certain I even want to replace items in the future. Not sure how much of it was Square D vs the supply house that had the issues. Had one time gotten credit, then several months later an in house audit of some sort somehow determined they needed to invoice me for those items again, and it was some I line breakers that were charged at "off the shelf" high prices instead of the discounted price the original breakers were purchased at on a small job quote that included the panelboard and other items.
 

mbrooke

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The recall involved putting a couple of tie wraps on the wires so the leaking heating elements wouldn’t drip on the components. I know, I had one.
Can't make this stuff up. Its not just them, but Bosch, GE, Maytag (before Whirlpool acquired it), Frigidaire over the past two decades on different makes and models.
 
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