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Why I always check every terminal in a panel

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480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Got a call yesterday from the owner of a townhouse, having issues with a breaker tripping. I assumed it was an AFCI and I can't stand those types of calls. But I stopped by early this afternoon to check it out.

I remove the panel cover and check the connections on breaker no. 13, which is off and is marked "LR and MBR outlets". Nothing unusual there. But just out of habit, I check every terminal in the panel.

I just about filled my drawers when I worked my way up the breakers to the 40a 2p for the range.


There's a 2011 inspection sticker on the panel. I've got a dollar that says this breaker's terminals were never tightened down 9 years ago. Amazing that the range even worked, let alone didn't melt the breaker at some point.

I usually find one or two terminations in every panel I open that could benefit from a bit more torque. But this one just floored me.
 
I

I_am_STILL_learning

Member
Location
South Carolina
Occupation
Electrician
Yes. I have run across that.

We also had one on a 200A single phase main panel in a house. The customer complained that the lights kept blinking. My dad opened up the panel and found that the grounded conductor feeding the panel was laying against the lug. It was a wonder that anything was working.
 
Jraef

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
My guess; they have hardwood floors and at some point, they hired someone to sand them. Those guys need 30-40A 240V for their sanders, so they will come up with all sorts of "creative" ways to get it. Usually they have some sort cringe worthy of alligator clip arrangement, but other times they remove the range or dryer wires and put in their SJ cord directly tino the breaker. Then in this case, he forgot to re-tighten them, because you know, the job was done...

This image is from a website INSTRUCTING contractors on how to get power for their sanders...
6N-620-WFB_JJ20-Techn-BreakerPanelTie-In200AmpService_med.jpg
 
hbiss

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
Been wracking my brain trying to think of a fair and cost effective way to provide power to these guys so they don't resort to stuff like this. Floor guys have been using allegator clips for as long as I'm alive. How about requiring a 30A dryer receptacle someplace like next to the panel with the required 20A receptacle unless there is an actual electric dryer?

-Hal
 
T

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
480sparky said:
Got a call yesterday from the owner of a townhouse, having issues with a breaker tripping. I assumed it was an AFCI and I can't stand those types of calls. But I stopped by early this afternoon to check it out.

I remove the panel cover and check the connections on breaker no. 13, which is off and is marked "LR and MBR outlets". Nothing unusual there. But just out of habit, I check every terminal in the panel.

I just about filled my drawers when I worked my way up the breakers to the 40a 2p for the range.


There's a 2011 inspection sticker on the panel. I've got a dollar that says this breaker's terminals were never tightened down 9 years ago. Amazing that the range even worked, let alone didn't melt the breaker at some point.

I usually find one or two terminations in every panel I open that could benefit from a bit more torque. But this one just floored me.
Click to expand...
Had one like that in my daughters condo a few months ago. Complaint was a receptacle stopped working. Gave her the interrogation as one would give their own daughter-did it ever work, did you screw with it, is there a switch, etc. Found the the conductor on the up stream receptacle wrapped around the screw and the screw backed out all the way. Been like that for 15 years and just now showed itself. Funny how lightly loaded things can be that way for years and never an issue.
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
texie said:
Had one like that in my daughters condo a few months ago. Complaint was a receptacle stopped working. Gave her the interrogation as one would give their own daughter-did it ever work, did you screw with it, is there a switch, etc. Found the the conductor on the up stream receptacle wrapped around the screw and the screw backed out all the way. Been like that for 15 years and just now showed itself. Funny how lightly loaded things can be that way for years and never an issue.
Click to expand...

I repaired the same issue in a 4-plex about 5 years ago. It had been like that since 1962, when the current owner had it built.

After that, I has hired to replace every device and fixtu......... er.......... luminaire......... when a unit was vacant. Found several more just like it.
 
hbiss

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
480sparky said:
It's not 'fair' if the vast majority of people never have wood floors that need sanded. Make the floor guys buy a generator.
Click to expand...

I agree, that's why it's such a conundrum. Making it Code across the board would make it unfair. Even to make it required for places with wood floors only, who is to determine if the flooring is the type that could be or requires sanding? What if wood is added later?

Floor guys should buy a generator, but they never will when all they have to do is use their alligator clips. That's what we need to prevent.

How about special screws on the panel covers that only ECs can get the driver bit for? ;)

-Hal
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
drcampbell said:
Remind me to lock out the panel if I ever get the floors sanded.
And rehearse my mock surprise for when the sanders tell me they tried to tamper with my panel, but were unable to.

PLO-Amazon-Store.jpg
Click to expand...


Practice your 'surprised' face when you find out the have one of these on their trucks:

Y1449892-01.jpg
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Occupation
EC
480sparky said:
It's not 'fair' if the vast majority of people never have wood floors that need sanded. Make the floor guys buy a generator.
Click to expand...
Not funny, I had to come up with a three phase generator for floor guys at a school (redoing gym floor) that only had single phase service. Most places they go to have three phase so they have three phase sanders.

I found a tractor PTO generator that we could use, a school board member donated a tractor to drive it.
 
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