Will AFCI Breakers Fit?

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charlie b

charlie b

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We signed a contract this morning for a kitchen remodel. I will do none of the work, especially not the electrical work. But I will post related questions. Here is the first of those.

The service panel (see photo) was installed when we moved in 12 years ago. Since then, the NEC rules regarding AFCI have changed. My concern is that the electrician will need to install AFCI breakers for all loads in the kitchen, and that the panel we have won't be able to accept them. Is this a real concern, or will we be OK?

The panel is a Square D HOMC42UC, series SO1.
 

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I'm not familiar with that specific panel, but it WILL take SqD HO AFCi's with the pigtails. It may not accept the AFCI's that clamp directly onto the neutral bar as it may not extend far enough down from the top. If it's 12 years old, I seriously doubt it will. Taking off the cover and looking to see if the neutral bar extends past every breaker space is the only way to find out.
 
If you're an electrician, why would you not do the electrical work in your own home? I wouldn't want some other electrician working on my home. I am very particular about everything being done a certain way.

But yes, AFCI breakers are readily available for the Homeline panel. They cost about $40 each, after sales tax, at Home Depot. Too bad you don't live in Michigan or somewhere else where they're not required.
 
480sparky said:
I'm not familiar with that specific panel, but it WILL take SqD HO AFCi's with the pigtails. It may not accept the AFCI's that clamp directly onto the neutral bar as it may not extend far enough down from the top.
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Yes, exactly. If the panel is 12 years old, then that was before they had the clamp-on type. The kind with the pigtails are the only ones that can be used.
 
jeff48356 said:
If you're an electrician, why would you not do the electrical work in your own home?
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I'm not an electrician. I'm an engineer. Forum rules do not allow me to ask DIY questions. So I wanted to make my role in this project clear.

 
The panel will have no problem accepting afci breakers.

Boy, I feel sorry for that electricians/ He better dot his "i's" and cross his "t's". LOL

Charlie, we do know that you are not doing the work yourself. Thanks for better forthright for everyone to know.
 
In the 70's, they used to make 12" wide loadcenters. I have a current job (not resi) that has a 14.5" wide QO load center and right next to it a 12" wide QO. Odd. Good thing I dont have to add AFCI's to that narrow one!
 
Little Bill said:
If you're not adding, or extending any circuits more than 6', you probably won't need AFCI breakers.
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During the last year, I'm finding both AFCI Breakers & Leviton DF outlets struggle with kitchen appliances that nuisance trip AFCI's (Most Microwaves when relatively empty), and GFCI's when protecting some refrigerators.

If breaker resets are not convenient, the advantage of Leviton's Dual-Function A/GFCI outlet satisfies "Replacement code" 406.4(D)(3)&(4), with counter-top resets.

Unfortunately the outlet devices require locating the 1st outlet, or beginning of line, and most electrical contractors can't, or won't, or are just not equipped with required instrument to find it. Many electrician prefer panel work or service upgrades to outlet replacements.
 
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ramsy said:
During the last year, I'm finding both AFCI Breakers & Leviton DF outlets struggle with kitchen appliances that nuisance trip AFCI's (Most Microwaves when relatively empty), and GFCI's when protecting some refrigerators.

If breaker resets are not convenient, the advantage of Leviton's Dual-Function A/GFCI outlet satisfies "Replacement code" 406.4(D)(3)&(4), with counter-top resets.

Unfortunately the outlet devices require locating the 1st outlet, or beginning of line, and most electrical contractors can't, or won't, or are just not equipped with required instrument to find it. Many electrician prefer panel work or service upgrades to outlet replacements.
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There is no requirement to place a OB AFCI or GFCI in the first outlet. The only requirement for replacements is to protect the outlet you are replacing. You could put them in each outlet replaced. Probably not a great Idea.
 
Sierrasparky said:
There is no requirement to place a OB AFCI or GFCI in the first outlet. The only requirement for replacements is to protect the outlet you are replacing. You could put them in each outlet replaced. Probably not a great Idea.
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That statement is good for GFCI intended for replacement receptacles on an existing circuit with no EGC. But generally the rules for AFCIs are intended to cover the entire wire run rather than just connected loads.
Depending on the specific Code section that requires AFCI protection, it may indeed have to be at the first outlet in the run from the source panel.
 
GoldDigger said:
That statement is good for GFCI intended for replacement receptacles on an existing circuit with no EGC. But generally the rules for AFCIs are intended to cover the entire wire run rather than just connected loads.
Depending on the specific Code section that requires AFCI protection, it may indeed have to be at the first outlet in the run from the source panel.
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Sorry with all due respect, to comply with 406.4 (D)4 you only need to AFCI protect the outlet replaced.

Sorry for the hijack!
 
charlie b said:
I'm not an electrician. I'm an engineer. Forum rules do not allow me to ask DIY questions. So I wanted to make my role in this project clear.
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If you are an Engineer, you can certainly DIY something as simple as that. And btw, with all the reports of nuisance tripping, why would you AFCI that panel? I did the opposite, I took all my AFCIs out.
 
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