Will AFCI Breakers Fit?

Status
Not open for further replies.
charlie b said:
We signed a contract this morning for a kitchen remodel. I will do none of the work, especially not the electrical work. But I will post related questions. Here is the first of those.

The service panel (see photo) was installed when we moved in 12 years ago. Since then, the NEC rules regarding AFCI have changed. My concern is that the electrician will need to install AFCI breakers for all loads in the kitchen, and that the panel we have won't be able to accept them. Is this a real concern, or will we be OK?

The panel is a Square D HOMC42UC, series SO1.
Click to expand...

Are they installing new circuits or extending existing circuits in the kitchen area? Installing new circuits AFCI might be required in your area. Extending existing, install dual function receptacles.
 
Sierrasparky said:
There is no requirement to place a OB AFCI or GFCI in the first outlet. The only requirement for replacements is to protect the outlet you are replacing. You could put them in each outlet replaced. Probably not a great Idea.
Click to expand...

Good point, lets put it in context with Charlie's kitchen remodel.

Its new work only, where Arc-Fault code 210.12(B/D)(2) demands an AFCI breaker, or AFCI Plug at first outlet. My AHJ interprets first outlet as first readily-accessible outlet 210.12 (2nd sentence), since reset buttons shall not be buried behind appliances or cabinet doors.

While Kitchen remodels may get new circuits & new-outlet locations; triggering the new-work codes; 210.12 for AFCI's, 210.8 for GFCI's, 406.12 for Tamper Resistant device, and State Energy Codes for new lighting, other Small Appliance Branch Circuits may just get replacement plugs.

406.4(D)(1-5) A/GFCI protected & Tamper Resistant plugs are only needed where replaced, if required by current new-work codes. For those unmodified existing circuits with some devices replaced, and existing grounding wiring, the original plugs behind appliances, cabinet doors, and the wiring in-between can remain unchanged, grandfathered with the original construction.

Electricians not equipped --or interested-- in finding the first outlet in a circuit, will first upgrade the electrical-service box to fit modern A/GFCI breakers. Then when nuisance tripping A/GFCI breakers won't function thru cross-circuited renovations and jury-rigged building wiring, they must face the prospect of every outlet being an expensive reset device, or removing the A/GFCI protection all together.

Without a desire to find the fist outlet and wire it for down stream plugs, these Electricians are not equipped to protect ungrounded 2-wire cables with a localized GFCI, as permitted for several years in 406.4(D)(2). These electricians exploit people into complete building re-wiring using new cables with grounding. Both methods pass inspection if done properly, one just offers a lot less protection and cost a lot more.

Electricians equipped to find the first outlet, and properly wire A/GFCI plugs, offer options that avoid exploit, avoid unintended consequences of MWBC's, and other existing-wiring issues incompatible with A/GFCI breakers at the fuse box.

Nuisance tripping with appliances is a learning curve, and having the skills to cover several plugs from one counter-top reset device offers another option to put the AFCI or Dual Function inside, rather than forcing people to walk outside in the dark to reset breakers. These options are not available with electricians who up-sell unnecessary construction to avoid wiring outlets.
 
Thanks for the comments. Here are a few answers to your questions.

I have a countertoparea left of the sink, another right of the sink, and another on the oppositewall. Each is served by its ownSABC. The two countertops adjacent tothe sink each have a GFCI receptacle and one standard receptacle feed downstream ofthe GFCI. It’s the same on the oppositeside of the kitchen, except there are two standard receptacles fed downstreamof the GFCI. All of these receptaclesare going to be replaced. There is aseparate, 15 amp circuit that only feeds one receptacle that is in the cabinetabove the microwave. We are removingthat microwave and installing a range hood, so the 15 amp circuit can be usedfor that purpose. There is another 15 amp circuit that only feeds a receptacle behind the range (electronic ignition for a propane range). It will remain in place to serve the range. I also do not know (yet) howthe fridge is fed (i.e., what else might be on that same circuit). I will find out before the electrician startsworking.

The stove ispresently next to the fridge; it will be moved about 30 inches away. That will create a new wall space that willrequire an outlet. I will speak with theEC about whether to relocate one of the outlets presently on that countertopwall space to the new countertop wall space, or whether to add a fourthoutlet. I think the extension of thecircuit will be under six feet.

One thing that mywife thinks will be cool is that the replacement receptacles are not going tobe installed on the wall. Instead, theywill be in something I envision to be wiremold running along the back end ofthe under side of the cabinets. Theywill be out of sight, and will not be blocked by any appliance she sets uponthe countertop.

I am sure the GC hasone or more ECs that he normally works with.
 
That would be plug mold or more correctly, a multi outlet assembly, Mr b.

lof-gfci_plugmold.ashx
 
Most ec's hate that stuff. Sure it hides the outlets but it is a bear to install and it isn't easy to plug into it. As long as the appliances stay on the counter then you won't have to reach up under there and that wouldn't be bad.

BTw, they make TR plugmold as well as gfci plugmold. I would avoid the plugmold with a built in gfci because when it goes you'll have to replace the entire strip unless someone is stocking that device. I don't know of anyone who has a replacement for it.
 
Plugmold is straight out of the pit of hell itself. It's the only electrical product that I well and truly despise installing. Well, that and AFCI's. :roll::lol:
 
charlie b said:
One thing that my wife thinks will be cool is that the replacement receptacles are not going to be installed on the wall. Instead, they will be in something I envision to be Wiremold running along the back end of the under side of the cabinets. They will be out of sight, and will not be blocked by any appliance she sets upon the counter top.
Click to expand...

Dennis Alwon said:
Why did you mention that one extension will be under 6'.
Click to expand...

Perhaps to avoid new-work codes & AFCI breakers per 2017 210.12(D)(2) Exception. If <6ft of new cable, inspectors should apply "Replacement Code" 406.4(D).

I'm having visions of unsightly, but accessible blank-cover plates for existing outlets, save one for Dual Function A/GFCI to plug in the Wiremold assembly. Unless legally abandoned before buried --to remain accessible-- any outlet-wiring junctions can't be covered by Wiremold.

Charlie's electrical-service upgrade apparently did not require A/GFCI breakers (photo). As with most plans, much less kitchen remodels, desire is never defacto. Additional outlet(s) will happen, or cables will be extended > 6ft, therefore the EC will be expected to follow the proper new-work codes 210.8/12/etc, without 2017 210.12(D)(2) Exception.

With most AFCI's being Ground-fault sensing, if A/GFCI breakers (new-work Option 1) won't hold in the fuse box, and the EC won't screw with First Outlets in existing wiring (new-work Option 2), Charlie must find another electrician to properly wire down-stream devices from a localized OB-Device / Dual Function outlets.

If no such electrician exists, or non willing to assume existing permit, Charlie must face the prospect of reset devices at each & every outlet, with no clue to which one of several outlet-reset buttons should be pressed --when any one-or-more lose power--, or won't reset.

Where new work is found, removing the A/GFCI protection all together is a clear violation of fire code, and bears the highest risk of being found by Insurance inspectors looking for cause to deny claims, and keep all your premiums without paying out a dime. Fire code violations are not insurable.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top