Will these 240v. single phase loads need a neutral?

[zappy]

It's for a restaurant. There going to be a 40amp dishwasher, 30amp espresso mach. And a 50amp outlet for ?. Restaurants are new to me. I'm doing my wire fill for my conduit run, and I don't know yet if I will need to pull a neutral for these. Thank you.

 

[iwire]

No way to tell without seeing the equipment or cut sheets.

 

[dwellselectric]

The manual should tell you the electrical requirements I would think. If you can't find the manual open up the wiring compartment I'm sure it would have a wiring diagram you can see.

 

[broadgage]

A neutral would be desireable to future proof the installation, even if the appliance does not need a neutral, any future replacement might need a neutral.

 

[iwire]

A neutral would be desireable to future proof the installation, even if the appliance does not need a neutral, any future replacement might need a neutral.

Can he send the bill to you? :grin:

If I am bidding on a project I cannot provide extras to 'future proof' things.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

I would say yes...most appliances use 120v. for control circuitry.

 

[iwire]

I would say yes...most appliances use 120v. for control circuitry.

I have yet to connect a commercial dishwasher that needed a neutral, that being said I have not seen it all.

I would not plan on anything without seeing the equipment or cut sheets for the equipment.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

I have yet to connect a commercial dishwasher that needed a neutral, that being said I have not seen it all.

I would not plan on anything without seeing the equipment or cut sheets for the equipment.

I didn't think i had seen it all either...until I did some repairs on an over/under Traulsen freezer/fridge which used the neutral for all switching/control functions.

 

[augie47]

I have yet to connect a commercial dishwasher that needed a neutral, that being said I have not seen it all.

I would not plan on anything without seeing the equipment or cut sheets for the equipment.

Excellent advice. Unless you have engineered drawings (and even then it's questionable), you need to see the equipment or cut sheets on it or will may be in for a whole bundle of surprises.
To most restaurant owners there is one guideline. "It plugs in" or it doesn't.
Three phase vs single phase, 208 vs 240, 2kw vs 20 kw all means nothing when they are selecting equipment. If it a bargain, they buy it.

 

[One-eyed Jack]

Excellent advice. Unless you have engineered drawings (and even then it's questionable), you need to see the equipment or cut sheets on it or will may be in for a whole bundle of surprises.
To most restaurant owners there is one guideline. "It plugs in" or it doesn't.
Three phase vs single phase, 208 vs 240, 2kw vs 20 kw all means nothing when they are selecting equipment. If it a bargain, they buy it.

This is the sad truth. You plan and pull for specs,when it gets there due to "value enginering" it won't fit,pipe to small to pull larger wires,etc. Who is responsible for poor planning on the part of the owner/gc/eng; the EC of course!!!!!

 

[kwired]

Excellent advice. Unless you have engineered drawings (and even then it's questionable), you need to see the equipment or cut sheets on it or will may be in for a whole bundle of surprises.
To most restaurant owners there is one guideline. "It plugs in" or it doesn't.
Three phase vs single phase, 208 vs 240, 2kw vs 20 kw all means nothing when they are selecting equipment. If it a bargain, they buy it.

I had a small restaurant owner buy a really nice stainless steel sink with a heavy duty disposer installed in it at an auction. Don't remember what he paid for it but was a steal. Problem was the disposer was three phase and his restaurant only supplied with single phase. He did not like the idea that it would cost more than what he paid for it to make it work.

 

[zappy]

This is the sad truth. You plan and pull for specs,when it gets there due to "value enginering" it won't fit,pipe to small to pull larger wires,etc. Who is responsible for poor planning on the part of the owner/gc/eng; the EC of course!!!!!

Why would the EC be to blame? You followed the blue prints. That's on someone else I would think.

 

[AV ELECTRIC]

you need an equipment schedule with details on what is needed and let the owner know any changes could lead to a significant price increase . You don't want to put yourself in a he said she said or the other people said which could end up costing you. If this is a new restaurant try to get paid quickly before the other subs if at all possible . Sometimes new restaurants run out of financing quickly or have permit problems which can slow things down . Many don't last after there first year in business. Just things to think about

 

[MJW]

I wouldn't trust anything but my own two eyes looking at the equipment. Equipment schedules on prints are wrong many times and I have been given the wrong cut sheet more than once. If the best information I have says it doesn't need a neutral I usually try to leave room in the conduit for one. Chain restaurants are the worst, they tend to have boiler plate prints that don't always get updated when they should. I have even run into the equipment amperage being way off.

 

[iwire]

To most restaurant owners there is one guideline. "It plugs in" or it doesn't.
Three phase vs single phase, 208 vs 240, 2kw vs 20 kw all means nothing when they are selecting equipment. If it a bargain, they buy it.

:grin:

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[mxslick]

I wouldn't trust anything but my own two eyes looking at the equipment. Equipment schedules on prints are wrong many times and I have been given the wrong cut sheet more than once. If the best information I have says it doesn't need a neutral I usually try to leave room in the conduit for one. Chain restaurants are the worst, they tend to have boiler plate prints that don't always get updated when they should. I have even run into the equipment amperage being way off.

Same thing happens to me with cinema gear. Try to get hands-on with the equipment before wiring if possible. If not, price it high enough to account for either "future proofing" or have a T&M agreement for any changes.

 

[bradleyelectric]

Bid a scope of work based on documents provided and note that any changes will be at an additional charge.