Window Foil ?!?!?!?

[fistfullofhate]

Hello everyone and thanks for taking time to look at my post! Today I tested for the SC Burglar alarm, I was surprised to see how many questions pertained to window foil. In my opinion this is antiquated technology and should not be on a current exam.

Does anyone still install window foil?

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Hello everyone and thanks for taking time to look at my post! Today I tested for the SC Burglar alarm, I was surprised to see how many questions pertained to window foil. In my opinion this is antiquated technology and should not be on a current exam.

Does anyone still install window foil?

Welcome to the forum. Outdated doesn't have much to do with it. Since you still may service such systems. The NEC still recognizes Knob and tube as a wiring method. When's the last time you ran any of that?

 

[nhfire77]

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Does anyone still install window foil?

No one. AFAIK. However according to the number one site http://www.alarmfoil.com/ on google when searching for window foil, its making a come back!!!! (I don't believe it)

As previously stated, you get tested on it because you may have to repair it, and someone hasn't bothered to (or paid to) update the test bank. I personally wouldn't repair them, sell em glass breaks, PIR's and a back up radio. That's just me though.

 

[fistfullofhate]

Welcome to the forum. Outdated doesn't have much to do with it. Since you still may service such systems. The NEC still recognizes Knob and tube as a wiring method. When's the last time you ran any of that?

I have never installed window foil, I have observed pictures of this in books and have seen the reminisce of previous installations in the field. This falls into the same category as window bugs.

When I made it back to the office I contacted all of my major distributors to find that no one still has window foil for sale. I did a quick Google and found the same website selling it!

I am currently looking at the 2005 NEC handbook article 394 and I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Can you explain how the knob and tube method applies?

 

[Security101]

I have seen it new around here - we'll call it "decorative security", and there are no more "plain old square corners", designs are the fad...

Just sayin :grin:

Jim

 

[nhfire77]

I have never installed window foil, I have observed pictures of this in books and have seen the reminisce of previous installations in the field. This falls into the same category as window bugs.

When I made it back to the office I contacted all of my major distributors to find that no one still has window foil for sale. I did a quick Google and found the same website selling it!

I am currently looking at the 2005 NEC handbook article 394 and I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Can you explain how the knob and tube method applies?

Knob and Tube has nothing directly to do with it.

The point he was making is Knob and Tube is still a permissible wiring method (existing construction) and the code addresses it, but no one uses it.

 

[fistfullofhate]

Knob and Tube has nothing directly to do with it.

The point he was making is Knob and Tube is still a permissible wiring method (existing construction) and the code addresses it, but no one uses it.

OK thanks for the clarification!

I have seen it new around here - we'll call it "decorative security", and there are no more "plain old square corners", designs are the fad...

Just sayin

Jim

Holy cow!!! So forget stain glass doors! I would love to see this!

 

[hurk27]

No one. AFAIK. However according to the number one site http://www.alarmfoil.com/ on google when searching for window foil, its making a come back!!!! (I don't believe it)

As previously stated, you get tested on it because you may have to repair it, and someone hasn't bothered to (or paid to) update the test bank. I personally wouldn't repair them, sell em glass breaks, PIR's and a back up radio. That's just me though.

I hate glass breaks, as they seem to go off anytime it thunders, its so bad around here that the city had started charging false call fee's to try to get alarm installers to quit using them or get a better modal that thunder wont set off.

 

[nhfire77]

I hate glass breaks, as they seem to go off anytime it thunders, its so bad around here that the city had started charging false call fee's to try to get alarm installers to quit using them or get a better modal that thunder wont set off.

In have heard of that, but not personally. As long as you keep the sensitivity high it doesn't. I realize that catch performance is greatly reduced, but I wouldn't rely on them soley.

I have a pet store that does not use PIRs but uses glassbreaks. Its a balance between safety and false alarm reduction. Also, in those cases cross zoning is a good technique.

 

[fistfullofhate]

I hate glass breaks, as they seem to go off anytime it thunders, its so bad around here that the city had started charging false call fee's to try to get alarm installers to quit using them or get a better modal that thunder wont set off.

We have standardized the dual technology glass break detectors in our installations, The Honeywell FG730 has a great coverage area and when properly configured and is false alarm free!

 

[mcclary's electrical]

We have standardized the dual technology glass break detectors in our installations, The Honeywell FG730 has a great coverage area and when properly configured and is false alarm free!

False alarm free,,,yes. But won't pick up glass break around a corner:roll: Nothings perfect

 

[dbuckley]

I hate glass breaks, as they seem to go off anytime...

Anytime the cat knocks over a glass bottle on a tiled floor. Doesn't even need the bottle to break.

After the very-early-morning false alarm the break glass detectors got pulled out, I can tell you...

 

[MAK]

I always thought window foil was ancient technology. I had questions about it on my D-license test. I would not install new foil, I don't even know how to.

I would install glass breaks before foil. Doesn't foil false alarm frequently? Isn't it harder to troubleshoot and repair? I have never worked on it. It seems like it something that is easily damaged.

 

[fistfullofhate]

False alarm free,,,yes. But won't pick up glass break around a corner:roll: Nothings perfect

Here in lies the problem, never expect any equipment to protect or offer reliable responses when stretched beyond its functional limits.

If the layout has been done by a qualified technician and installed per spec. it should be as close to perfect as possible. But under NO circumstance sell a device knowing that it is being pushed beyond its recommended functional limits. Expecting a glass break detector to bend around a corner is a really bad practice.

 

[MichaelGP3]

Known issues with glassbreak detectors....

Known issues with glassbreak detectors....

If there are any glass chips or fragments in the frame that the plate of glass is resting upon, especially if the window/sliding door is on anything except a northern exposure, the glass will expand and contract due to fluctuations in temperature (or when it thunders, or when heavy trucks or buses drive by). Glassbreaks detectors are sensitive to the frequency of noise made as the larger plate of glass grinds against the chips it rests on. If you are having an intermittent problem with glassbreaks, & have replaced units you thought to be faulty but still have the problem, this could be your issue. When a pane of glass is being replaced, vacuum the channel the glass sits in/upon really well.

Having said that, I haven't worked with dual technology sensors that include glassbreak. Maybe these are the solution.