Wire by the foot

[LarryFine]

I have 18 feet

Works pretty well

Yes, but all of those shoes!

 

[2Broke2Sleep]

Laser range finder for long distances or Goggle Earth.

I love lasers inside but for outside I use my wheel

 

[2Broke2Sleep]

I charge "per opening" 99% of the time.

Opening price includes enough wire that I'm good

Can I pick your brain a little more on this bid method? I want to start bidding the same way but curious how you account for unusual situations like a panel on the other side of the house. Also what all an opening includes, and if a 3gang is 3 openings?

 

[Little Bill]

Can I pick your brain a little more on this bid method? I want to start bidding the same way but curious how you account for unusual situations like a panel on the other side of the house. Also what all an opening includes, and if a 3gang is 3 openings?

I'm not answering for James but I'll tell you some of the way I charge. A 3-gang box would, by default, be 3 openings because I charge for each device. So if there were 3 switches that would be 3 devices or openings. 3-way switches don't count as extra as you would count the other 3-way switch when you count devices in that area. A regular ceiling mount light, basic light, not pendant or chandelier, would count as another opening and would be the same price as switches & receptacles. I would count all the switches, receptacles, and basic lights then multiply the total by my opening price for these. I have prices for recessed lights, smokes, pendant lights, ceiling fans, flood lights, bath fans, etc. Also have prices for homeruns with different prices for each type, 15/20A, 30A, 40A, etc.

 

[Chamuit]

You should be billing like @ppsh said in post #19.

I used to charge for a length of wire. e.g. Add 1 can light to a circuit? Use the cost of 25' of wire, plus can, trim, etc., each time. I very rarely used 25' from one can to the other as most spacing was 8-10 feet.

 

[2Broke2Sleep]

I'm not answering for James but I'll tell you some of the way I charge. A 3-gang box would, by default, be 3 openings because I charge for each device. So if there were 3 switches that would be 3 devices or openings. 3-way switches don't count as extra as you would count the other 3-way switch when you count devices in that area. A regular ceiling mount light, basic light, not pendant or chandelier, would count as another opening and would be the same price as switches & receptacles. I would count all the switches, receptacles, and basic lights then multiply the total by my opening price for these. I have prices for recessed lights, smokes, pendant lights, ceiling fans, flood lights, bath fans, etc. Also have prices for homeruns with different prices for each type, 15/20A, 30A, 40A, etc.

I'm assuming your homeruns are done by the ft. Is each homerun an individual price even if you are pulling 3+ 14/2 at the same time? I'm guessing your per opening calc would look something like: labor unit per opening x material cost (after markup).... If you go on a service call and ask for the same opening do you charge the same rate or do you have different rates for builders?

My price book for service has my calculated hourly* labor units + cost per foot of cable. I think I'd be pretty high if I quoted a new house/gutted remodel the same way....

 

[Little Bill]

My service call rate on materials is much larger than on new construction.
15A/20A HR are the same price and is based on average length of the run. If it's an extremely long run, I charge more
30A HR is a separate price and also based on average run
40A and up are also priced separate for each each

 

[James L]

@Little Bill and I have very similar pricing methods.

Standard opening price includes basic materials:
18 feet 14/2 or 10 feet 12/2
Fiberglass box (each gang, or ceiling round)
Device and plate, if applicable
"Average" amount of labor

If you have an opening that's out of the norm, you have to account for it.

Can light adds materials, but not really any labor
Smoke detector adds materials, not labor
High chandelier adds labor, not extra materials
Ceiling fan adds materials and labor

I figure circuits at 50 feet. But remember there's already wire counted into the first opening as well. A dedicated circuit for one receptacle gets counted as both - circuit x1 and receptacle x1

240v circuits get figured by the foot.
Don't forget materials and labor for accompanying pieces, such as ac disconnect, furnace switch (which is an opening)

I also count each breaker pole as an opening in addition to the circuit.

I count everything

 

[Amps]

Laser range finder for long distances or Goggle Earth.

How do you use Google Earth to figure distance for wire?

 

[ptonsparky]

How do you use Google Earth to figure distance for wire?

It has a measurement tab. Long distances. Between buildings etc.

The laser one I use is for hunting. 10 to 1000 yards.

 

[Amps]

It has a measurement tab. Long distances. Between buildings etc.

The laser one I use is for hunting. 10 to 1000 yards.

Thanks! I just figured how to do it. Pretty cool.

 

[2Broke2Sleep]

My service call rate on materials is much larger than on new construction.
15A/20A HR are the same price and is based on average length of the run. If it's an extremely long run, I charge more
30A HR is a separate price and also based on average run
40A and up are also priced separate for each each

So your labor rate is the same for service and construction? I figure 1000 billable hours a year/ per crew doing service I was thinking about adjusting this to be higher for new house/remodels just to bring the labor rate down a little to be more competitive. Not sure if I'd be shooting myself in the foot or not.

 

[Little Bill]

So your labor rate is the same for service and construction? I figure 1000 billable hours a year/ per crew doing service I was thinking about adjusting this to be higher for new house/remodels just to bring the labor rate down a little to be more competitive. Not sure if I'd be shooting myself in the foot or not.

I only mentioned material as that was what I thought you were asking. However, both material and labor rates are different for service calls and new construction. When a job, such as new construction, will take days rather than hours, the labor rate is lower since you know you can be on the job and not running around job to job. Also, material amounts would be more on new construction and you can charge less than a service call where you might just use one or few parts. One would not be very competitive on new construction bids if you use the higher service call rates on labor and materials.

Now turn that around, you wouldn't make much, if anything, on a service call if you charged a per opening price. Example: You charge a per opening price of *$80 for receptacles on new construction. Now you get a service call and they want one receptacle added. You couldn't do the service call and make anything for just $80.
*(not actual prices)

 

[Amps]

I only mentioned material as that was what I thought you were asking. However, both material and labor rates are different for service calls and new construction. When a job, such as new construction, will take days rather than hours, the labor rate is lower since you know you can be on the job and not running around job to job. Also, material amounts would be more on new construction and you can charge less than a service call where you might just use one or few parts. One would not be very competitive on new construction bids if you use the higher service call rates on labor and materials.

Now turn that around, you wouldn't make much, if anything, on a service call if you charged a per opening price. Example: You charge a per opening price of *$80 for receptacles on new construction. Now you get a service call and they want one receptacle added. You couldn't do the service call and make anything for just $80.
*(not actual prices)

So your labor rate is the same for service and construction? I figure 1000 billable hours a year/ per crew doing service I was thinking about adjusting this to be higher for new house/remodels just to bring the labor rate down a little to be more competitive. Not sure if I'd be shooting myself in the foot or not.

I was in my electrical business back in the 80's, 90's and got a full time job in IT, keeping my electrical very part-time. For the past year and a half I have been back in my electrical business full time. It has been nuts trying to figure out pricing. Like starting all over again. The electricians around here are a secret bunch, with any type of labor rates being taboo to discuss. Service call rates, renovation, new construction is a big secret. I recently saw an add for a local photographer who charges $125 for a 45 minute session to meet with a customer outdoors, takes a few photos and sends them to the customer. No license, insurance, etc,etc.

 

[2Broke2Sleep]

I was in my electrical business back in the 80's, 90's and got a full time job in IT, keeping my electrical very part-time. For the past year and a half I have been back in my electrical business full time. It has been nuts trying to figure out pricing. Like starting all over again. The electricians around here are a secret bunch, with any type of labor rates being taboo to discuss. Service call rates, renovation, new construction is a big secret. I recently saw an add for a local photographer who charges $125 for a 45 minute session to meet with a customer outdoors, takes a few photos and sends them to the customer. No license, insurance, etc,etc.

I've spent days and days putting together a price book for service calls and it's not even close to being finished. I like to give a flat rate up front and it makes my life easier not having to figure out costs for every screw every job I have to give a quote on. Troubleshooting is something I have to get creative about pricing on though....
Right now my hourly rate is simply my annual burden including my 'salary' with a 20% margin added on the end. This number gets plugged in my excel sheet and I have tables for different tasks with labor units and another table with my material costs after getting sent to my markup table. Makes things much more streamlined, if my burden were to change I simply change it in the spreadsheet and the whole book adjusts. Same with material markup and stuff like cost of wire....

 

[Amps]

I've spent days and days putting together a price book for service calls and it's not even close to being finished. I like to give a flat rate up front and it makes my life easier not having to figure out costs for every screw every job I have to give a quote on. Troubleshooting is something I have to get creative about pricing on though....
Right now my hourly rate is simply my annual burden including my 'salary' with a 20% margin added on the end. This number gets plugged in my excel sheet and I have tables for different tasks with labor units and another table with my material costs after getting sent to my markup table. Makes things much more streamlined, if my burden were to change I simply change it in the spreadsheet and the whole book adjusts. Same with material markup and stuff like cost of wire....

I started something like that in excel too. I have materials grouped for each type of new work, old work and surface device. Then I add labor based on the job's situation. Funny thing is, I instinctively keep doing it the counting piece by piece way out of habit. Thank you for sharing your info.

 

[Amps]

@Little Bill and I have very similar pricing methods.

Standard opening price includes basic materials:
18 feet 14/2 or 10 feet 12/2
Fiberglass box (each gang, or ceiling round)
Device and plate, if applicable
"Average" amount of labor

If you have an opening that's out of the norm, you have to account for it.

Can light adds materials, but not really any labor
Smoke detector adds materials, not labor
High chandelier adds labor, not extra materials
Ceiling fan adds materials and labor

I figure circuits at 50 feet. But remember there's already wire counted into the first opening as well. A dedicated circuit for one receptacle gets counted as both - circuit x1 and receptacle x1

240v circuits get figured by the foot.
Don't forget materials and labor for accompanying pieces, such as ac disconnect, furnace switch (which is an opening)

I also count each breaker pole as an opening in addition to the circuit.

I count everything

Wondering how you arrived at 18ft of 14/2 or 10ft of 12/2 per opening? I am reinventing my prices and figure 25-30ft? 8ft up 12 ft over and 8ft down. Worse case. I know I am over doing it.

 

[2Broke2Sleep]

I have my billable efficiency of service work at 50%....What would be a typical efficiency rate of construction/remodels? I think the ceiling is 90%....

 

[James L]

Wondering how you arrived at 18ft of 14/2 or 10ft of 12/2 per opening? I am reinventing my prices and figure 25-30ft? 8ft up 12 ft over and 8ft down. Worse case. I know I am over doing it.

I wire through walls every chance I get, rather than going up and over.

My receptacle spacing is usually 8 stud bays (10'4"). I set my boxes at 14" to the top of the box. I drill my holes at 30" above floor, and leave cable long enough to reach the floor. That makes 2.5 ft on each end and 10 ft between, which is 15 feet.

Many times, though, I'm wiring openings on both sides of the same wall (such as living room against a bedroom, etc)

In those cases, I'm only using 2.5 + 2.5 + 5-ish ft (9 total). But going up and over chews up whatever I saved on shorter in-wall runs. Kinda balances out.

So it's realistically 15 feet per standard opening, then I add 20% to every opening to account for any unusually long runs.

Lights are usually set a bit differently, but it really averages out the same

 

[Amps]

I wire through walls every chance I get, rather than going up and over.

My receptacle spacing is usually 8 stud bays (10'4"). I set my boxes at 14" to the top of the box. I drill my holes at 30" above floor, and leave cable long enough to reach the floor. That makes 2.5 ft on each end and 10 ft between, which is 15 feet.

Many times, though, I'm wiring openings on both sides of the same wall (such as living room against a bedroom, etc)

In those cases, I'm only using 2.5 + 2.5 + 5-ish ft (9 total). But going up and over chews up whatever I saved on shorter in-wall runs. Kinda balances out.

So it's realistically 15 feet per standard opening, then I add 20% to every opening to account for any unusually long runs.

Lights are usually set a bit differently, but it really averages out the same

That's a great way to calculate. Thanks for sharing!