WIRE COLOR if we have 120 /208 and 277

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Jim W in Tampa said:
if 2 systems are preasant can both use black and white ? and just what year did this change ?
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200.6(D) "this section has been reorganized to provide a more LOGICAL layout consistent with the NEC Style Manual(3.3.1.2)"
Go figure.
 
your neutrals must be seperately identified, and what is what spelled out and posted

now the code reference may take a lil bit...
 
I was shocked (not really) to see the 277 ran in black and white on a building that should have been under 99 or 02 but it didnt end there.Are others preshured to work 277 live ?
 
As I read 200.6(D), the two systems would have to be in the same raceway or enclosure to kick in the requirement. So, if the two systems never shared a box, they could both be white, I suppose. I don't know why you'd want to...? :-?
 
in re: the different neutral colors being required by code:

'78 nec 210-5 (a) says grounded conductors need separate identifiction if "installed in same raceway, box,...enclosure"
 
There was a major change in the rules for identification of ungrounded conductors between the 2002 and the 2005 code. In 2002 section 210.4(D) applied only to multiwire circuits. It required that anytime you have a multiwire branch circuit in a building with more than one voltage system, you would have to identify the ungrounded conductors as to phase and voltage. In 2005 the rule was moved to 210.5(C) and no longer only applies to multiwire branch circuits...it applies to all ungrounded conductors where you have two or more voltage systems in the building. However it only requires identification by system and not by phase as was required in the 2002 rule.
Don
 
color

color

thanks don. we (TN STATE) are still on 2002 and I didnt have my 05 book handy when I answered. I knew there were "system" identification rules and only wished to point that out.

Thanks for the update.
 
I don't know why you'd want to...? :-?[/QUOTE]

I guess they figure that you should know if you are working with 277 or 120.

We always tried to use black/red/blue and orange/brown/yellow, but since there was nothing in the code that showed that, we were really the only ones that knew what the color codes meant.
 
color codes

color codes

Yes the only colors required by code are those of the grounded conductors, grounds and the high leg of a delta transformer with a neutral tap. The old standard for 277/480 was yellow,brown and purple, but this was replaced with the current standard practice of brown,orange and yellow because the brown and purple was hard to distinguish in low light situations. Normally deltas with the high leg are not found on the same premises as 480, but they are exceptions. Which can cause other issues.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
I was shocked (not really) to see the 277 ran in black and white on a building that should have been under 99 or 02 but it didnt end there.Are others preshured to work 277 live ?
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I wouldn't say pressured to work on 277 live. It all depends on the situation. If I have to change out a ballast in an office or something, I do it live. It's no different than a 120 ballast. Just have to be careful and know what you are doing. I've seen many electricians tie in services on houses live with no gloves on an extension ladder. I wouldn't want to do it and I think NFPA 70E frowns on it.
 
hillbilly1 said:
Yes the only colors required by code are those of the grounded conductors, grounds and the high leg of a delta transformer with a neutral tap.
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Hillbilly1, you may want to read 400.22(C), 424.35, and 517.160(A)(5).

Roger
 
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Yes, Roger you are correct, 517.160 does require the brown, orange and yellow. We do very little health care facilitys, so that was an easy one to hide. Which both of these articles are not exactly what we were talking about, but does invalidate what I wrote. But I did not make myself clear on the grounded conductor as the first article validates my point, grounded conductors are required to be certain colors.
 
Hillbilly1, I appologize 424.25 was a typo and I guess I editted it while you were replying.

Roger
 
I thought that was what I saw, then when I posted it was correct, I thought I screwed up, I'm glad you pointed out article 517.160 I now know what I have seen in a doctors surgery room was installed incorrectly, they had one black and the other black with a white stripe.
 
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