Wire rated for water submersion

[arcsparkman]

Many boat lifts are installed on Marco Island florida where I work. When a lift is installed it many times leaves a motor out over the water where the only way to run power to it is under the water in pvc conduit. Here in Florida we electricans call this a loop. As time goes by however we find that we are getting service calls where the outside motor has quit running due the the wires inside the loop burning in two. Our local inspectror wants to impliment a new standard for the wire that we install in this loop. we are trying to find a single strand wire that we can install in pvc conduit that is rated for submersion in water, in this case salt water. DOES IT EXIST? Does any one have a clue. A local lift manufacturer has started to provide a water resistant cable assembily that is about one inch in diameiter. But we are all hoping for a single strand option.

 

[tom baker]

THHW is wet location rated. A far better conductor is XHHW-XLP-2/ USE which is rated for direct burial. There also is a submerisble pump cable but its not much better than XHHW.
If you are using THHW, thats the reason for you failures. Its OK for building wire, I won't use it for an underground location in conduit.

 

[Lxnxjxhx]

Wire rated for water submersion

I thought the problem is not the insulation, but water getting in-between the conductor and the insulation, no?

 

[iwire]

I thought the problem is not the insulation, but water getting in-between the conductor and the insulation, no?

Both.

Any insulation with a 'W' is rated for water, insulation without a 'W' must remain in dry locations. FWIW I agree with Tom XHHW is great stuff.

Now as far as water getting on the inside that happens sometimes, the water will travel through the voids in the conductors for quite a long distance. This happens with service entrance cables if they are not installed carefully and the water will travel all the way into the panel on the inside of the building and ends up destroying the panel.

 

[brian john]

Seems to me a breakdown in insulation in water (in particular salt water) is a breeding ground for a fault of the conductor.

 

[iwire]

Seems to me a breakdown in insulation in water (in particular salt water) is a breeding ground for a fault of the conductor.

Sure, but if the raceway is below the water table you will not keep the water out.

 

[Lxnxjxhx]

the water will travel through

the water will travel through

So it can even go uphill

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...y+action&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

 

[iwire]

So it can even go uphill

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...y+action&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

Sure....maybe even reach the moon.

 

[Lxnxjxhx]

reach the moon.

reach the moon.

As long as you're getting weird, have you ever heard of the expression, "Adversity defines us", or "Calm seas will never a sailor make"?

Well, the movie "Forbidden Planet" had a creature in it that could only be seen if it was being fired upon. This movie symbol was kind of "an illustrated proverb".
It also had a machine in it that could focus essentially unlimited energy onto something, kind of like arc flash,
but,
then,
I digress.

 

[brian john]

Bob I was responding to LHXHXH..


I have seen exterordinary steps taken to keep wate out of conduits and guess what. it makes it in...

As Tom stated XHHW-XLP-2/ USE

 

[76nemo]

Many boat lifts are installed on Marco Island florida where I work. When a lift is installed it many times leaves a motor out over the water where the only way to run power to it is under the water in pvc conduit. Here in Florida we electricans call this a loop. As time goes by however we find that we are getting service calls where the outside motor has quit running due the the wires inside the loop burning in two. Our local inspectror wants to impliment a new standard for the wire that we install in this loop. we are trying to find a single strand wire that we can install in pvc conduit that is rated for submersion in water, in this case salt water. DOES IT EXIST? Does any one have a clue. A local lift manufacturer has started to provide a water resistant cable assembily that is about one inch in diameiter. But we are all hoping for a single strand option.

Out of curiousity, why solid in particular? Up here, the pump shop carries the sub pump cable, never even heard of it until I was called to replace one here:-?

 

[76nemo]

Out of curiousity, why solid in particular? Up here, the pump shop carries the sub pump cable, never even heard of it until I was called to replace one here:-?

Reminds me of another disgruntled occasion. Upon having some pump cable cut, before I knew it was solid, I asked for a splice kit. They gave me the butt splice kit and then the roll of #10 solid. "What's up with that?" You sell people butt splices for solid wire?????? They looked at me REAL funny. "Well Son, that's how people of these parts have been doing it for years, without any problems." "Well Father, coming from the schooling I came from, you NEVER crimp on solid wire, it doesn't mash like it's intended to." I was always taught that, and to never crimp on anything that had been tinned with solder. It just wasn't good practice, especially on anything like motor work where vibration came into play.

Son? They may as well called me "Boy"

Everyone does things differently. I still disagree with the practice, but who am I to say???

 

[don_resqcapt19]

You sell people butt splices for solid wire??????

According to UL the crimp connectors are listed for use with both solid and stranded conductors unless marked otherwise on the box.
From the UL Guide Information for Wire Connectors and Soldering Lugs (ZMVV).

— Unless clearly marked "Solid," "SOL," "Stranded" or "STR" for a given wire size, wire range or wire combination, conductors in the range 30-10 AWG are both solid and stranded, and 8 AWG and larger are for stranded wire only.

 

[petersonra]

Reminds me of another disgruntled occasion. Upon having some pump cable cut, before I knew it was solid, I asked for a splice kit. They gave me the butt splice kit and then the roll of #10 solid. "What's up with that?" You sell people butt splices for solid wire?????? They looked at me REAL funny. "Well Son, that's how people of these parts have been doing it for years, without any problems." "Well Father, coming from the schooling I came from, you NEVER crimp on solid wire, it doesn't mash like it's intended to." I was always taught that, and to never crimp on anything that had been tinned with solder. It just wasn't good practice, especially on anything like motor work where vibration came into play.

Son? They may as well called me "Boy"

Everyone does things differently. I still disagree with the practice, but who am I to say???

I am not a big fan of butt splices (or splices in general for that matter), but I don't see that they are worse on solid wire versus stranded.

 

[weressl]

Both.

Any insulation with a 'W' is rated for water, insulation without a 'W' must remain in dry locations. FWIW I agree with Tom XHHW is great stuff.

Now as far as water getting on the inside that happens sometimes, the water will travel through the voids in the conductors for quite a long distance. This happens with service entrance cables if they are not installed carefully and the water will travel all the way into the panel on the inside of the building and ends up destroying the panel.

"W" stands for wet, not necessarily for submersion in water.

Common materials used for insulation are permeable to water. Salt of course will agravate the situation especially in the case of PVC, since that contains chlorides. Nylon jacketing on THWN will probably last the longest as long as you have not abrasied the jacket while pulling, which is next to impossible to accomplish. There are many unique solutions come to mind, but it sounds like the OP is looking for something simple.

Laying power cables in water, somehow, just sends chills down on my spine.

 

[petersonra]

"W" stands for wet, not necessarily for submersion in water.

Common materials used for insulation are permeable to water. Salt of course will agravate the situation especially in the case of PVC, since that contains chlorides. Nylon jacketing on THWN will probably last the longest as long as you have not abrasied the jacket while pulling, which is next to impossible to accomplish. There are many unique solutions come to mind, but it sounds like the OP is looking for something simple.

Laying power cables in water, somehow, just sends chills down on my spine.

Every well has cables in water.

And how is it any worse than putting them underground in conduit? The conduits almost always fill up with water eventually.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

This is an issue as we commonly use conductors with a "W" in submerged applicaitons, yet there are specific cables that are actually listed for submerged use. Why are there both types?
For example the Type W and G flexible power cables are listed for submerged use. However, I don't see any permission to use them for the application in this thread.

 

[pbeasley]

Many boat lifts are installed on Marco Island florida where I work. When a lift is installed it many times leaves a motor out over the water where the only way to run power to it is under the water in pvc conduit. Here in Florida we electricans call this a loop. As time goes by however we find that we are getting service calls where the outside motor has quit running due the the wires inside the loop burning in two. Our local inspectror wants to impliment a new standard for the wire that we install in this loop. we are trying to find a single strand wire that we can install in pvc conduit that is rated for submersion in water, in this case salt water. DOES IT EXIST? Does any one have a clue. A local lift manufacturer has started to provide a water resistant cable assembily that is about one inch in diameiter. But we are all hoping for a single strand option.

You could always get one made. There are a number of custom cable manufacturers out there. I would think one of them would be able to work with you to create a submersible double insulated single conductor cable. Only downside is, they usually have a 10,000ft minimum.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Many boat lifts are installed on Marco Island florida where I work. When a lift is installed it many times leaves a motor out over the water where the only way to run power to it is under the water in pvc conduit. Here in Florida we electricans call this a loop. As time goes by however we find that we are getting service calls where the outside motor has quit running due the the wires inside the loop burning in two. Our local inspectror wants to impliment a new standard for the wire that we install in this loop. we are trying to find a single strand wire that we can install in pvc conduit that is rated for submersion in water, in this case salt water. DOES IT EXIST? Does any one have a clue. A local lift manufacturer has started to provide a water resistant cable assembily that is about one inch in diameiter. But we are all hoping for a single strand option.

Will the local jurisdiction permit you to use marine type cables? I do not know if there is a reason for the PVC underwater...is this location subject to physical damage of some kind?

We see the marine cables being used in this area for saltwater dock supplies.

 

[weressl]

Will the local jurisdiction permit you to use marine type cables? I do not know if there is a reason for the PVC underwater...is this location subject to physical damage of some kind?

We see the marine cables being used in this area for saltwater dock supplies.

Marine cable specification still does not assure that it is approved for continous submerging.

Submarine cable - not for submarines, but for laying in seabed - would be the appropriately labeled cable, but if it unlikely that it is recognized by the NEC.

http://www.philatron.com/NewCatalog/TAB11/Submersible_Pump_Cable-Round.html