Hi all,
First to provide some background - I am not an electrician but need to get some work done through licensed electricians - but getting conflicting information. So I need to get some clarification. I am planning on purchasing a Nissan Leaf and was getting some quotes for getting the work done. I had two different licensed guys come by and was told two different things
I need to install 240 lines/ outlets established in my garage for the Leaf. My main panel is on the other side of the garage. The homebuilder has put a 3/4 flexible conduit (blue corrugated) from the panel to the garage. Doing any other conduits is a real nightmare due to the structure of the house and where concrete pads are. (Running a second conduit is not an option for this discussion)
I am also planning on putting an outdoor kitchen right behind the garage. I wanted to put a tankless water heater (240V - 20amps/30 amps) and also getting one of the 240v 20 amp induction portable burners. I need some additional lights and 110/120V outlets (for fan, blender etc).
I was thinking that the best way would be to put a subpanel in the garage. I will not be charging the car and using the kitchen at the same time. The car eventhough it is plugged in, would only be charging it in the night during off-peak hours when I am not using the kitchen. Now onto the challenges
The first guy came by and said that he could pull three #6 and one #8 (for ground) wires. I am not too sure he looked closely at the conduit. I am not sure if this would fit. He said I can put a 60 amp subpanel in the garage. But he said that the maximum size of a breaker that he could put in the panel was 30 amp since the maximum size of an individual breaker in the panel is half of what the source is according to code. Since I will be using a 60 amp breaker in the main panel to feed the subpanel, 30 amp would be max. He says I can put as many breakers as I want but none of them can exceed 30 amps. SAE J1772 Level 2 equipment (for EV charging) are all mostly 40 amp devices. Though the current version of the leaf can only draw 16 amps on a 240V circuit, they will probably provide an upgrade that can draw 32 amps (on a 40 amp circuit drawing 6.6 Kwatts)
The second guy came by and once again, I am not sure looked at the conduit carefully and told me that it was a 1/2 inch conduit. He said, I would be able to install a 40 amp subpanel - but since the conduit was too small, I could only fit two #8(hots) one #10 (neutral) and one #12 (ground). He tells me that I can use one size lower neutral and 2 size lower ground. He said that in this 40 amp subpanel, I can put 40 amp breaker for the Car charger (contradicting what the first guy told me). He said, I can put another 40 amp breaker and use this for a second subpanel in the outdoor kitchen.
I then opened up the terminal point of the conduit in the garage and I beleive it is a 3/4 conduit. I have a 1/2 inch PVC conduit at my home and I could barely fit my finger in the 1/2 inch but the existing conduit seemed bigger. I am pretty confident it is a 3/4 conduit.
Questions
1. Ideally I would like a 60 amp subpanel in the garage. Do you guys think I can fit enough wires in it?
2. Can I downsize the wire for the neutral as the second guy suggested? From what I understand, neutral is only used on 120V circuits. Since I will only have one 15 amp 120V circuit on this subpanel, what is the size of neutral and ground that I can have (the reason I am asking is due to the small conduit)
3. If indeed I can only put two #8, one #10 and one #12, can I put a 40 amp breaker in the main panel to create a 40 amp subpanel? Into this, can I put one 40 amp breaker(for EV charger), one 30 amp (for water heater), one 240V 20 amp (for induction burner) and one 120V 15 amp (for outlets, lights etc). I am pretty sure, I will never exceed 40 amps when I am using the kitchen. Even if it did, this would trip the breaker and I can live with it.
4. Is there a restriction on max size of the circuit breaker in a subpanel panel wrt the size of the breaker in the main panel. ie if the breaker in the main panel is 60 amp, can I put a 40 amp breaker in the subpanel. If the breaker in the main panel is 40 amp, can I still put a 40 amp circuit breaker in the subpanel?
5. For the external kitchen, the tankless water heater is 240V, 30 amp (installed under the sink). I can hardwire this. Do I need a 240 V GFCI breaker for this?
6. For the induction burner, this will have to be a 240V receptacle (it cannot be hardwired since I will plug and unplug the portable burner). Do I need a GFCI breaker for this? (the first guy did not mention anything about needing GFCI protection for the 240V devices)
7. For the 110V outlets, I will use a GFCI breaker or put a GFCI outlet at the first connection.
8. I also need a second meter for "time of use" charging of the electric vehicle. I am checking with SMUD. I am not sure if I can install it in the garage. If I could, I would put this between the breaker in the subpanel in the garage and the car charge port (so that my other uses do not go into this meter). If I have to put the second meter near the main panel, I do not see how I can provide power to my outdoor kitchen without going through this meter. Any of you guys have experience with this?
Please help. I was hoping to get consistent information from 2 different licensed electricians - but I am now lost.
First to provide some background - I am not an electrician but need to get some work done through licensed electricians - but getting conflicting information. So I need to get some clarification. I am planning on purchasing a Nissan Leaf and was getting some quotes for getting the work done. I had two different licensed guys come by and was told two different things
I need to install 240 lines/ outlets established in my garage for the Leaf. My main panel is on the other side of the garage. The homebuilder has put a 3/4 flexible conduit (blue corrugated) from the panel to the garage. Doing any other conduits is a real nightmare due to the structure of the house and where concrete pads are. (Running a second conduit is not an option for this discussion)
I am also planning on putting an outdoor kitchen right behind the garage. I wanted to put a tankless water heater (240V - 20amps/30 amps) and also getting one of the 240v 20 amp induction portable burners. I need some additional lights and 110/120V outlets (for fan, blender etc).
I was thinking that the best way would be to put a subpanel in the garage. I will not be charging the car and using the kitchen at the same time. The car eventhough it is plugged in, would only be charging it in the night during off-peak hours when I am not using the kitchen. Now onto the challenges
The first guy came by and said that he could pull three #6 and one #8 (for ground) wires. I am not too sure he looked closely at the conduit. I am not sure if this would fit. He said I can put a 60 amp subpanel in the garage. But he said that the maximum size of a breaker that he could put in the panel was 30 amp since the maximum size of an individual breaker in the panel is half of what the source is according to code. Since I will be using a 60 amp breaker in the main panel to feed the subpanel, 30 amp would be max. He says I can put as many breakers as I want but none of them can exceed 30 amps. SAE J1772 Level 2 equipment (for EV charging) are all mostly 40 amp devices. Though the current version of the leaf can only draw 16 amps on a 240V circuit, they will probably provide an upgrade that can draw 32 amps (on a 40 amp circuit drawing 6.6 Kwatts)
The second guy came by and once again, I am not sure looked at the conduit carefully and told me that it was a 1/2 inch conduit. He said, I would be able to install a 40 amp subpanel - but since the conduit was too small, I could only fit two #8(hots) one #10 (neutral) and one #12 (ground). He tells me that I can use one size lower neutral and 2 size lower ground. He said that in this 40 amp subpanel, I can put 40 amp breaker for the Car charger (contradicting what the first guy told me). He said, I can put another 40 amp breaker and use this for a second subpanel in the outdoor kitchen.
I then opened up the terminal point of the conduit in the garage and I beleive it is a 3/4 conduit. I have a 1/2 inch PVC conduit at my home and I could barely fit my finger in the 1/2 inch but the existing conduit seemed bigger. I am pretty confident it is a 3/4 conduit.
Questions
1. Ideally I would like a 60 amp subpanel in the garage. Do you guys think I can fit enough wires in it?
2. Can I downsize the wire for the neutral as the second guy suggested? From what I understand, neutral is only used on 120V circuits. Since I will only have one 15 amp 120V circuit on this subpanel, what is the size of neutral and ground that I can have (the reason I am asking is due to the small conduit)
3. If indeed I can only put two #8, one #10 and one #12, can I put a 40 amp breaker in the main panel to create a 40 amp subpanel? Into this, can I put one 40 amp breaker(for EV charger), one 30 amp (for water heater), one 240V 20 amp (for induction burner) and one 120V 15 amp (for outlets, lights etc). I am pretty sure, I will never exceed 40 amps when I am using the kitchen. Even if it did, this would trip the breaker and I can live with it.
4. Is there a restriction on max size of the circuit breaker in a subpanel panel wrt the size of the breaker in the main panel. ie if the breaker in the main panel is 60 amp, can I put a 40 amp breaker in the subpanel. If the breaker in the main panel is 40 amp, can I still put a 40 amp circuit breaker in the subpanel?
5. For the external kitchen, the tankless water heater is 240V, 30 amp (installed under the sink). I can hardwire this. Do I need a 240 V GFCI breaker for this?
6. For the induction burner, this will have to be a 240V receptacle (it cannot be hardwired since I will plug and unplug the portable burner). Do I need a GFCI breaker for this? (the first guy did not mention anything about needing GFCI protection for the 240V devices)
7. For the 110V outlets, I will use a GFCI breaker or put a GFCI outlet at the first connection.
8. I also need a second meter for "time of use" charging of the electric vehicle. I am checking with SMUD. I am not sure if I can install it in the garage. If I could, I would put this between the breaker in the subpanel in the garage and the car charge port (so that my other uses do not go into this meter). If I have to put the second meter near the main panel, I do not see how I can provide power to my outdoor kitchen without going through this meter. Any of you guys have experience with this?
Please help. I was hoping to get consistent information from 2 different licensed electricians - but I am now lost.
