Wires stapled to bottom of joist

[timmermeier]

how small of wire can i staple to bottom of joist in basement ? ( 2011 nec art. please ) ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[augie47]

334.15(C)............(C) In Unfinished Basements and Crawl Spaces. Where cable is run at angles with joists in unfinished basements and crawl spaces, it shall be permissible to secure cables not smaller than two 6 AWG or three 8 AWG conductors directly to the lower edges of the joists. Smaller cables shall be run either through bored holes in joists or on running boards.

 

[infinity]

You've stated wire but did not say what type. Augie gave you NM cable but AC cable can be stapled in any size as long as there is a staple in every joist. {320.15}

 

[James L]

Wire is single conductor(s)

Cable is multiple conductors

 

[letgomywago]

334.15(C)............(C) In Unfinished Basements and Crawl Spaces. Where cable is run at angles with joists in unfinished basements and crawl spaces, it shall be permissible to secure cables not smaller than two 6 AWG or three 8 AWG conductors directly to the lower edges of the joists. Smaller cables shall be run either through bored holes in joists or on running boards.

This in peticular I've seen amended in a few different areas to exclude crawll spaces but my goto in those is to staple to the side of a stemware even though it's not required where I'm at.

 

[retirede]

Are you running along the joist or perpendicular to it?

 

[Fred B]

Rationale for restricting perpendicular underside cable attachment is from what I see in 90% of homes that have an accessible basement level is people will use the cable as a hanger rod to hang cloths or other stuff from on the crossing cable. And resulting pulling out of the staple, or damage of the cable.

Even in jobs that I've had the customer remove the items so I can gain access to work and tell them of the danger, when I've returned 2 weeks later for somehting else it is already re-hung onto the cables. Thus requiring running board for installation of cable crossing or running thru bored holes.

 

[busman]

Wire is single conductor(s)

Cable is multiple conductors

Agree that wire is single conductor, but not all cables are multi-conductor. There are single conductor cables. Probably a better definition is that cables are meant to be run "as constructed" with no additional protection. Wires are not.

Mark

 

[cabledawg]

Make sure to use nail plates if needed and for your piece of mind if your drilling studs.

 

[letgomywago]

Make sure to use nail plates if needed and for your piece of mind if your drilling studs.

You need to be 2 inches atleast from the bottom of the joists for building code. I don't see any reason for nail plates then

 

[VirutalElectrician]

Thus requiring running board for installation of cable crossing or running thru bored holes.

But how does running through bored holes prevent someone from hanging something on it? Just eliminates the pulled stape problem, but can still stretch and damage the wire.

 

[infinity]

But how does running through bored holes prevent someone from hanging something on it? Just eliminates the pulled stape problem, but can still stretch and damage the wire.

It's possible that hanging something can damage the cable but regardless of whether or not that will happen it is code compliant to run through bored holes.

 

[James L]

It's possible that hanging something can damage the cable but regardless of whether or not that will happen it is code compliant to run through bored holes.

He's just asking How the code makes any sense
It doesn't

 

[rc/retired]

He's just asking How the code makes any sense
It doesn't

WHAT????????

 

[augie47]

But how does running through bored holes prevent someone from hanging something on it? Just eliminates the pulled stape problem, but can still stretch and damage the wire.

This is certainly anecdotal but when the rule only applied to basements I had an old time Code Panel member tell me the original intent of not allowing NM on basement ceiling joists was due to folks finishing the basement by adding cover directly to the joists nailing into the NM.
Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Fred B]

This is certainly anecdotal but when the rule only applied to basements I had an old time Code Panel member tell me the original intent of not allowing NM on basement ceiling joists was due to folks finishing the basement by adding cover directly to the joists nailing into the NM.
Take it with a grain of salt.

Seen it done. So statement has some validity.

 

[infinity]

This is certainly anecdotal but when the rule only applied to basements I had an old time Code Panel member tell me the original intent of not allowing NM on basement ceiling joists was due to folks finishing the basement by adding cover directly to the joists nailing into the NM.
Take it with a grain of salt.

I've seen that done in attics many times where they just slapped some plywood on the joists.

 

[domnic]

You've stated wire but did not say what type. Augie gave you NM cable but AC cable can be stapled in any size as long as there is a staple in every joist. {320.15}

Is the same true for mc cable ?

 

[augie47]

Is the same true for mc cable ?

for joist, it can be run on the underside where supported at each joist and not subject to physical damage

for attics, same rule applies 330.23

 

[retirede]

This is certainly anecdotal but when the rule only applied to basements I had an old time Code Panel member tell me the original intent of not allowing NM on basement ceiling joists was due to folks finishing the basement by adding cover directly to the joists nailing into the NM.
Take it with a grain of salt.

Same thing could happen if running boards are used, yet that’s allowed.