Wireway sizing for angle pull

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qcroanoke

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
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Sorta retired........
If I have a 10x10 inch wireway that I am entering from the back with (2) 3 inch rigid nipples, (opposite the removable cover) and exiting out the bottom with (2) 3 inch rigid nipples.
The wireway is mounted vertically. Does it need to be a minimum of 6x3 =18 +3+3+3=27 inches in length? With 18 inches between raceways containing the same conductors?
I know 312.6 (a) (1) and (A) (2) allows the depth to be less than 10 inches. But is 10 inches wide legit?
Sizing wireway and pull boxes is as confusing as trying to figure out what a class 1, class 2 or class 3 circuit is.
 
qcroanoke said:
If I have a 10x10 inch wireway that I am entering from the back with (2) 3 inch rigid nipples, (opposite the removable cover) and exiting out the bottom with (2) 3 inch rigid nipples.
The wireway is mounted vertically. Does it need to be a minimum of 6x3 =18 +3+3+3=27 inches in length? With 18 inches between raceways containing the same conductors?
I know 312.6 (a) (1) and (A) (2) allows the depth to be less than 10 inches. But is 10 inches wide legit?
Sizing wireway and pull boxes is as confusing as trying to figure out what a class 1, class 2 or class 3 circuit is.
Click to expand...

The only restriction on the width is 376.22(A). Depth is 312.6 as you state. I think you are off on the length. There is nothing that dictates overall length, but distance between entrees would be 6X3+3.
 
electrofelon said:
The only restriction on the width is 376.22(A). Depth is 312.6 as you state. I think you are off on the length. There is nothing that dictates overall length, but distance between entrees would be 6X3+3.
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Unless it's changed in a later Code, I can't say I'm 100% in agreement. The length of the wireway would need to be 6 x 3 +3 (21) but the distance between entries of conduits carrying the same conductors would only need to be 6 x 3.
 
augie47 said:
Unless it's changed in a later Code, I can't say I'm 100% in agreement. The length of the wireway would need to be 6 x 3 +3 (21) but the distance between entries of conduits carrying the same conductors would only need to be 6 x 3.
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To clarify, the distance between raceways is a diagonal between raceway entries. So that means the nearest edge-to-edge distance of the holes you punch, to fit the conduit through the enclosure wall.

Not raceway centers
Not hubs, connectors or bushings
Raceway Entries
 
augie47 said:
Unless it's changed in a later Code, I can't say I'm 100% in agreement. The length of the wireway would need to be 6 x 3 +3 (21) but the distance between entries of conduits carrying the same conductors would only need to be 6 x 3.
Click to expand...

I am not so sure I am in agreement with your less than 100% agreement ;) I think the applicable section is 376.23(B) which says that ".....the distance between raceway and cable entries enclosing the same conductor shall not be less than that required by.....314.28(A)(2)......" Now 314.28(A)(2) has information that would dictate the length of the box, but we were not sent there to size the length of the box, we were sent there to find the distance between cable entries. I think if they wanted us to use all the requirements in 314.28(a)(2), they should say something like "....the wireway shall be sized per 314.28(A)(2)."
 
electrofelon said:
I am not so sure I am in agreement with your less than 100% agreement ;) I think the applicable section is 376.23(B) which says that ".....the distance between raceway and cable entries enclosing the same conductor shall not be less than that required by.....314.28(A)(2)......" Now 314.28(A)(2) has information that would dictate the length of the box, but we were not sent there to size the length of the box, we were sent there to find the distance between cable entries. I think if they wanted us to use all the requirements in 314.28(a)(2), they should say something like "....the wireway shall be sized per 314.28(A)(2)."
Click to expand...

Our "disagreement" may be based on Code cycles. The '08 I have handy and the copy of '14 I have both say:
The distance between raceway entries enclosing the same conductor shall not be less than six times the metric designator (trade size) of the larger raceway

Where does your wording appear ?


 
augie47 said:
Our "disagreement" may be based on Code cycles. The '08 I have handy and the copy of '14 I have both say:
The distance between raceway entries enclosing the same conductor shall not be less than six times the metric designator (trade size) of the larger raceway

Where does your wording appear ?


Click to expand...

I was quoting '14. So I looks like the wording is the same. So where do we get a length requirement for the wireway?
 
qcroanoke said:
If I have a 10x10 inch wireway that I am entering from the back with (2) 3 inch rigid nipples, (opposite the removable cover) and exiting out the bottom with (2) 3 inch rigid nipples.
The wireway is mounted vertically. Does it need to be a minimum of 6x3 =18 +3+3+3=27 inches in length? With 18 inches between raceways containing the same conductors?
I know 312.6 (a) (1) and (A) (2) allows the depth to be less than 10 inches. But is 10 inches wide legit?
Sizing wireway and pull boxes is as confusing as trying to figure out what a class 1, class 2 or class 3 circuit is.
Click to expand...

what version of the code are you finding 312.6 (a) (1) and (A) (2) in?
 
electrofelon said:
I was quoting '14. So I looks like the wording is the same. So where do we get a length requirement for the wireway?
Click to expand...

Initially I looked at '08 as TN is still in the dark ages.My copy of '14 is a "draft" copy so potentially inaccurate but I the wording appears the same with the overall length for an angle pull being 6 x + the sum of additional and an added paragraph later simply stating 6 X on the conduit entries.
As with most Sections it can be read many ways. My comment to you was in no way meant to be disrespectful or argumentative.. just you and I view it differently.
 
qcroanoke said:
I know 312.6 (a) (1) and (A) (2) allows the depth to be less than 10 inches. But is 10 inches wide legit?
Click to expand...
Answer to that question depends on conductor sizes and number per terminal or equivalent for say parallel conductors where you are not hitting a terminal after turning, and will come from 312.6(B) for the entry in the side of the wireway.

Distance between entries is what matters. Should you find you need 21 inches between - after figuring the width of two 3 inch raceways plus additional width needed just for lock nuts, a 24 inch long wireway is probably too short. A 36 inch long wireway is probably longer then needed but is what you likely end up purchasing.
 
kwired said:
Answer to that question depends on conductor sizes and number per terminal or equivalent for say parallel conductors where you are not hitting a terminal after turning, and will come from 312.6(B) for the entry in the side of the wireway.

Distance between entries is what matters. Should you find you need 21 inches between - after figuring the width of two 3 inch raceways plus additional width needed just for lock nuts, a 24 inch long wireway is probably too short. A 36 inch long wireway is probably longer then needed but is what you likely end up purchasing.
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You don't need to think about locknuts, when interpreting the spacing. It is the distance between raceway entries. As in the openings you make in the wall of the enclosure, before installing your conduits and fittings. However, it is important to anticipate the size of the locknut, when making sure the conduit isn't too close to the enclosure wall, that the locknut can't spin.

You know how easy it is to read the text of 314.28, and never once notice the word "entries"?

I'm glad they did use the word entries. Trying to add up all the intricate dimensions of your locknut, bushing and any other fitting you might be using, would drive you nuts. With the word "entries", that just means all you need to know is the size of your punchout in that trade size, which is generally close to the next standard trade size.
 
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Carultch said:
You don't need to think about locknuts, when interpreting the spacing. It is the distance between raceway entries. As in the openings you make in the wall of the enclosure, before installing your conduits and fittings. However, it is important to anticipate the size of the locknut, when making sure the conduit isn't too close to the enclosure wall, that the locknut can't spin.

You know how easy it is to read the text of 314.28, and never once notice the word "entries"?

I'm glad they did use the word entries. Trying to add up all the intricate dimensions of your locknut, bushing and any other fitting you might be using, would drive you nuts. With the word "entries", that just means all you need to know is the size of your punchout in that trade size, which is generally close to the next standard trade size.
Click to expand...
I did not say locknuts was to be considered for minimum space between raceways, I said should you determine 21 inches (completely out of the air figure not based on anything in OP) you physically would need 21 inches plus enough width to physically connect the two raceways (which needs to consider enough room for the locknuts also) as a absolute minimum size for your enclosure. The whole point of what I mentioned was to indicate it is kind of hard to place 3 inch raceways with 21 inches between them in a 24 inch enclosure. 25 or 26 inch enclosure is more do able though probably not a standard sized unit.
 
what if you have only one conduit entry/exit?

a gutter might fall into that kind of situation, where there is a hole cut between two boxes and the boxes mated up but no conduit, and the conduit exits somewhere in the gutter.
 
petersonra said:
what if you have only one conduit entry/exit?

a gutter might fall into that kind of situation, where there is a hole cut between two boxes and the boxes mated up but no conduit, and the conduit exits somewhere in the gutter.
Click to expand...
One can change the question to what if you have cable entries? I'm pretty certain there is wording somewhere that creates an equivalent raceway or "conduit" entry that you would apply. Darn e-book of my 2014 NEC isn't working at the moment so I can't look it up unless I actually go find my hard copy and open it:(
 
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