Wiring a horse barn

Status
Not open for further replies.
O

ohm

Senior Member
Location
Birmingham, AL
I've been asked to wire a new horse barn (metal building w/ concrete floors). I don't know the physical dimensions yet but it has 3 stalls, a bath, an open area to saddle a horse and an office. Ther are (9) 8' flourescent overhead lights. I'm not sure if they want the service done yet or if other structures are involved.

Art. 550 is a real eye opener: site isolation device, equipotential planes, guarded switches, receptacles, panels, insulated grounding electrode conductors, UF or NMC, watertight boxes, GFCI recp. etc.

This could run into money, if not bid properly.
 
ohm said:
I've been asked to wire a new horse barn (metal building w/ concrete floors). I don't know the physical dimensions yet but it has 3 stalls, a bath, an open area to saddle a horse and an office. Ther are (9) 8' flourescent overhead lights. I'm not sure if they want the service done yet or if other structures are involved.

Art. 550 is a real eye opener: site isolation device, equipotential planes, guarded switches, receptacles, panels, insulated grounding electrode conductors, UF or NMC, watertight boxes, GFCI recp. etc.

This could run into money, if not bid properly.
Click to expand...

YEP, Ive also got one coming out of the ground, and Im glad I seen your post, as Ive got to make sure I get my bonding in before they pour the slab....yikes

and...thats art 547 in the o8
 
You know, Ive been around equine, and cattle all my life, and I have never seen a issue. I was thinking the original intent with this "equipotential stuff" was dairy cattle, as it messes up milk production, not that there is actually a current level big enough to hurt the animal otherwise, am I wrong?
 
I have done a few just like you described. Just not under 2008. Be sure to bond the metal framing of the building. It is easier to run all you can in pvc, except where the animals can get to it. I installed damp location cover on all recpt. to keep out dust and used vapor proof flor. lighting. Just remember dust, dust and more dust. Then there is the issue with water used for washing the horses and the floor.
 
ceb58 said:
I have done a few just like you described. Just not under 2008. Be sure to bond the metal framing of the building. It is easier to run all you can in pvc, except where the animals can get to it. I installed damp location cover on all recpt. to keep out dust and used vapor proof flor. lighting. Just remember dust, dust and more dust. Then there is the issue with water used for washing the horses and the floor.
Click to expand...

Next we will have "equipotential bonding" on garage floors so babies can crawl on "all fours" :D Bit ...Of course we care more about animals than humans, right?.....OK enough...sorry :rolleyes:
 
From what I understand it all is about fire safety. Horse barns and stables have an entirely different set of hazards than we would think. First of all they are usually filled with dry flammable materials such as hay, feed, and etc. all of which creates a lot of fine air born dust looking for places to collect like inside devices and fixtures. Horses also get board standing around all day and use thier mouth and teeth alot like we use our hands. Investigation every thing within reach, thus there is alot of nibbling and tugging with wet mouths. Then there is the inevitable rodent problem and we all know how mice and rats chew and nibble on everything they can. Also horses have metal shoes. While the voltages may not harm the animal outright a startled horse in a confined space could do alot of damage to itself.

Gene
______________________________________

Remember - Speed Kills and its not always you.
 
Ebow said:
From what I understand it all is about fire safety. Horse barns and stables have an entirely different set of hazards than we would think. First of all they are usually filled with dry flammable materials such as hay, feed, and etc. all of which creates a lot of fine air born dust looking for places to collect like inside devices and fixtures. Horses also get board standing around all day and use thier mouth and teeth alot like we use our hands. Investigation every thing within reach, thus there is alot of nibbling and tugging with wet mouths. Then there is the inevitable rodent problem and we all know how mice and rats chew and nibble on everything they can. Also horses have metal shoes. While the voltages may not harm the animal outright a startled horse in a confined space could do alot of damage to itself.

Gene
______________________________________

Remember - Speed Kills and its not always you.
Click to expand...

If you say so...:smile: I agree with the fire safety,GFI and wash down area enclosures, but isolation devices, equipotential grounding?.......what ever.....just dont see the evidence
 
Mule said:
Next we will have "equipotential bonding" on garage floors so babies can crawl on "all fours" :D Bit ...Of course we care more about animals than humans, right?.....OK enough...sorry :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

All this coming from someone with a screen name of "MULE":D
 
Mule said:
You know, Ive been around equine, and cattle all my life, and I have never seen a issue. I was thinking the original intent with this "equipotential stuff" was dairy cattle, as it messes up milk production, not that there is actually a current level big enough to hurt the animal otherwise, am I wrong?
Click to expand...
Yes, you are correct, swine also had problems, feeding the little ones. just as the chickens would quit laying.
 
ceb58 said:
All this coming from someone with a screen name of "MULE":D
Click to expand...

Ok, its friday night, and I just in a good mood....no alcohol mind you...!!

I just cant imagine if everything is grounded properly, with proper sized EGC's,and GFI's how can there be a potential large enough to effect anything across say, 5-6 feet of the concrete with mesh in it? A concrete slab has a HUGE area touching the ground already, Oh ok maybe you have a moisture barrier, thats it.. They say the the resistance of a slab to the earth is much much lower than the driven 25 ohm rod....So maybe that's it to well grounded?
 
Last edited:
Mule said:
Ok, its friday night, and I just in a good mood....no alcohol mind you...!!

I just cant imagine if everything is grounded properly, with proper sized EGC's,and GFI's how can there be a potential large enough to effect anything across say, 5-6 feet of the concrete with mesh in it? A concrete slab has a HUGE area touching the ground already, Oh ok maybe you have a moisture barrier, thats it.. They say the the resistance of a slab to the earth is much much lower than the driven 25 ohm rod....So maybe that's it to well grounded?
Click to expand...

OK, I caught myself, its the footings and or piers that have lower resistance to ground because of always moist soil, and the ground under a slab can dry out I guess...BUT I still dont see the potentional problem as they describe it...
 
I cant give it up.....argueing with myself now...haha....Ive always heard that in a fault condition that 25% of the fault current travels to the Electrode system while the balance travels up the system neutral back the the transformer. So I guess in a fault condition, with the slab possibly having a lower resistance to ground than the electrode, you COULD have current on, or across the mass of the slab......maybe thats' it?? I give up...you win...:grin:
 
Mule said:
I cant give it up.....argueing with myself now...haha....Ive always heard that in a fault condition that 25% of the fault current travels to the Electrode system while the balance travels up the system neutral back the the transformer. So I guess in a fault condition, with the slab possibly having a lower resistance to ground than the electrode, you COULD have current on, or across the mass of the slab......maybe thats' it?? I give up...you win...:grin:
Click to expand...


so long as the one of you who is right wins the arguement, argue away, lol
 
Gene, it seems what you mention and the very low (4 ma) shock hazard and the water and the corrosion and the 1000 lb. animals trying to kick and eat your job apart etc. puts this job at the "rocket science level".

I was wiring a farmhouse where the owner let 10 prize horses roam all around me. I was taking the the SE panel out of the box, looked around and a horse ate half the box, before I could get it away from him.

Thanks for the help guys and the link Brian.
 
ohm said:
Gene, it seems what you mention and the very low (4 ma) shock hazard and the water and the corrosion and the 1000 lb. animals trying to kick and eat your job apart etc. puts this job at the "rocket science level".

I was wiring a farmhouse where the owner let 10 prize horses roam all around me. I was taking the the SE panel out of the box, looked around and a horse ate half the box, before I could get it away from him.

Thanks for the help guys and the link Brian.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the ranting !! HAHA :D
 
MA_Electrician1 said:
Great thread.

In doing a barn soon and some of this has helped.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I had a chat with an inspector today and in addition to all that was already mentioned: feed storage rooms are required to have dust tight boxes. So, I would suggest no switches or receptacles in these rooms and if a light is required it must be dust tight.

I've been around some horses who acted real weird around waterers etc. could be they had received a tingle in the past, from leaky heaters and fill valves.

Anyway, a study of 547 and a talk with your AHJ would be fruitful, before starting a barn.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top