Wiring picnic area

[apprntice]

?My brother built a covered picnic area in his backyard about 10 feet away from the house and he wants to install 4 lights, 1 fan and a pair of duplex receptacles. Now, he wants to take power from the closest outside receptacle (gfci) fed from a 15A breaker wich also feeds general use receptacles in the living room (only one duplex rec. is being used) and one outside light. Given my close to zero residential experience i need some help figuring this out.
First, i rather run a new circuit from the panel, but, if it's legal to feed from the duplex i'll do it since is cheaper.
I'm planning on using either 14-2 or 12-2 UF cable for everything since is allowed for wet locations and underground installation (down 24" or 16" if in a raceway) . I know that i need gfci protection but that's already covered. What i don't know is how to come off the wall and across, since there is some sort of sidewalk around the house.
I was thinking in a weatherproof junction box on the wall underneath the gfci, then ? or 1?? pvc along the house to where i need to come across and then i don't know if run it underground and the come back up to another box; or run it all aboveground.

I will try to get some pictures but In the mean time any ideas, suggestions, comments, code violations, etc?

 

[GoldDigger]

You can water bore under the sidewalk if you have clearance to dig down and get the hose/pipe in from one side of the sidewalk and can dig far enough to grab the end on the other side. No need to break concrete if you are lucky.
Is the existing outside GFCI receptacle surface mounted in a Bell box or is it flush in the wall?

 

[ActionDave]

Some pictures really would help.

Since you have close to zero residential experience it would also help to know what kind of experience you do have.

 

[iwire]

PVC conduit is cheap, digging sucks and there is 300.5(D)(1) {2011 NEC}

300.5 Underground Installations.

(D) Protection from Damage. Direct-buried conductors
and cables shall be protected from damage in accordance
with 300.5(D)(1) through (D)(4).

(1) Emerging from Grade. Direct-buried conductors and
cables emerging from grade and specified in columns 1 and
4 of Table 300.5 shall be protected by enclosures or raceways
extending from the minimum cover distance below
grade required by 300.5(A) to a point at least 2.5 m (8 ft)
above finished grade. In no case shall the protection be
required to exceed 450 mm (18 in.) below finished grade

Not saying I would never use UF but I try to stay with a conduit. Much easier to repair when a conductor fails. Also it will solve the issue of protection where it comes out of the grade at each end.


As far as the load, a new circuit would be ideal but given the nature family jobs I would likely tap the existing circuit. If it turns out he overloads it (sounds doubtful) deal with that then.

If he has a four lights, a fan maybe a TV plugged in it should be fine. On the other hand if wants to run electric cooking appliances or other high wattage items he will have problems.

 

[fmtjfw]

You need to feed this with a GFCI. Look at the direct burial depth for residential w/GFCI, save some digging.

 

[apprntice]

Hi, guys thanks for your replies.

You can water bore under the sidewalk if you have clearance to dig down and get the hose/pipe in from one side of the sidewalk and can dig far enough to grab the end on the other side. No need to break concrete if you are lucky.
Is the existing outside GFCI receptacle surface mounted in a Bell box or is it flush in the wall?

Great idea, if i remember correctly it's a hard soil but it's worth the try; the GFCI is flush in the wall.

Some pictures really would help.

Since you have close to zero residential experience it would also help to know what kind of experience you do have.

Yeah, i know but my brother lives in another city so i have to wait till he gets back home from work. I'm in my last year of the inside wireman apprenticeship and i have worked in commercial and some industrial projects but never done residential or agricultural.

PVC conduit is cheap, digging sucks and there is 300.5(D)(1) {2011 NEC}

Not saying I would never use UF but I try to stay with a conduit. Much easier to repair when a conductor fails. Also it will solve the issue of protection where it comes out of the grade at each end.

As far as the load, a new circuit would be ideal but given the nature family jobs I would likely tap the existing circuit. If it turns out he overloads it (sounds doubtful) deal with that then.

If he has a four lights, a fan maybe a TV plugged in it should be fine. On the other hand if wants to run electric cooking appliances or other high wattage items he will have problems.

Good point, i knew that i had to protect the wire coming out from the trench with schedule 80 pvc but i don't know if i want 8ft of pvc exposed on one column, one the other hand if use pvc i can come out from underground to a junction box and then into the base of the column.

Yeah, i didn't think about using any cooking appliances but that's definitively something to consider.

You need to feed this with a GFCI. Look at the direct burial depth for residential w/GFCI, save some digging.

I'm going to check that asap; and yes, i'm going to feed from the load side of the GFCI.

 

[apprntice]

Here are some pictures,

#1 is kind of the overall situation, #2 shows the GFCI on the wall where i'm feeding from, #3 is the column where i'm coming to, and #4 shows the base that i'm aiming for; what i'd like to do is to bring the cable inside the column at the base.
There is a 8x8 in the center of the column and it's surrounded or covered with plywood and stucco, but for what i understand there is enough space to have the box flush.

fmtjfw, i already checked the table and noticed that i can get away with a 12" thrench, thanks!

 

[mlnk]

Here are some pictures,

#1 is kind of the overall situation, #2 shows the GFCI on the wall where i'm feeding from, #3 is the column where i'm coming to, and #4 shows the base that i'm aiming for; what i'd like to do is to bring the cable inside the column at the base.
There is a 8x8 in the center of the column and it's surrounded or covered with plywood and stucco, but for what i understand there is enough space to have the box flush.

fmtjfw, i already checked the table and noticed that i can get away with a 12" thrench, thanks!

With 2 inches of concrete cover there is no burial depth requirement. You could go 6 inches deep with 2 inches conc then 2 inches dirt.

 

[MHElectric]

Buy a WR bell box extension ring for that existing GFI box, and pop out the bottom of it with some carflex to sleave the uf into the ditch. Dont worry about using sch 80 pvc :lol:, just sleave it with carflex. Trust me, fast and easy.

Circuit is already GFI protected, so you can get away with only diggin down 12 inches. More than likely this is a 15 amp circuit, so #14/2 is what you need. But check it out first.

Where the uf emerges out of the ditch onto the pinic column/pagola/whatever, sleave it in carflex again and hit a bell box and use a WR rec. Unless he wants a switch (or his wife does!), dont worry about putting one in, just take that carflex all the way to a octagon bell box at the top of the structure and pull uf in it. They can control the fan by the pull chains - Just make sure you run that by them first, but its much easier & cheaper to do it that way.

30 ft of 1/2" carflex, some 3/4 emt straps, a 1/2" bell box or two, a 1/2" bell box extension, some carflex connectors, a wr rec, and how ever much uf you think you need. Thats a job well done, and on the cheap. :thumbsup:

 

[kwired]

If you want to save because of burial depth, check out how shallow you can bury RMC or IMC.

May spend more on raceway, may still equal out depending on how much time/expense may be used in digging.

 

[mjf]

FWIW, that is not a GFCI receptacle behind that in-use cover. Not saying it's not GFCI protected, but you said it's fed from living room circuit which generally isn't.