With an open hot, is a Klein Circuit Tracer accurate?

[Bob_Sacamano]

I spent a couple hours in a mansion I got called out to and am going back tomorrow. Customer has lived in house for 13 years with no problems. Last Saturday, half their partially finished basement suddenly went out (lights and outlets). It appears that everything that went out is on one circuit. There was no event that triggered this! No other tradesmen in the house. Just two wealthy sisters and their children. 90% of the portion that went out isn't in use. The part that is has a TV and an XBOX plugged in. Although there's 23 lights and 20 outlets that are out, still appears to be one circuit in an unoccupied part of the basement.

It's a very loaded up Eaton 200 Amp panel pushing 40 A on each leg, which is fine. No breakers are tripped though. I plugged the Klein plug tester/ tracer-signaler into two different outlets that were off. Both traced back to the same circuit breaker. This breaker rang out fine with a multimeter. 120V on the load side. Maybe I have to test the load side of every breaker. It's like 48 slots with multiple tandems. I'm thinking it's either an open hot somewhere or a GFCI that's wired wrong. Would a Circuit Tracer work properly under these conditions?

The work done in this place is immaculate despite 3 neutrals landed under 1 screw every time! Done simply to make it look pretty! 2/3 of the Neutral Bars are empty! The ground bars are done this same way. However the section that's out was done by a family member 10 years ago and isn't original. Over the phone, after I left, he claimed that the circuit is marked correctly (#15) (which is not the one that I'm tracing out (#44)). The circuit that I'm tracing out also has a $7,000 chandelier on it that is working, along with a couple can lights that surround it. I'd like to avoid having to open the first floor devices up if I can so I'm questioning if I'm tracing the right circuit in the first place.

 

[LarryFine]

You should use a solenoid tester instead of a voltmeter, or at least use a light bulb in a socket.

 

[hbiss]

Even houses with just two wealthy sisters and their children can have backstabbed devices.

-Hal

 

[LarryFine]

Additional advice: Plug a 3-wire extension cord into a known-working receptacle, and use the female end as references to find out which wire is no longer at the voltage it should be. If both hot and neutral are missing (floating), look for an open GFCI/AFCI.

 

[hillbilly1]

Most likely a hidden gfi receptacle tripped somewhere. Check for continuity between the neutral and ground, if it shows open, start hunting!

 

[Eddie702]

Had a problem once with a circuit that wouldnt go dead!

When the house was built in the 60s someone mistakenly tied two hots together from two different circuits (both on the same phase) in a junction box.

Since you have a lot of lights and receptacles on the "one circuit" and it dosent match up with what the family member is telling you you could have a similar issue......fed from two ends

 

[ptonsparky]

Had a problem once with a circuit that wouldnt go dead!

When the house was built in the 60s someone mistakenly tied two hots together from two different circuits (both on the same phase) in a junction box.

Since you have a lot of lights and receptacles on the "one circuit" and it dosent match up with what the family member is telling you you could have a similar issue......fed from two ends

That sure wouldn’t be the second or even third time it happened.

 

[Chamuit]

Unplug everything from the circuit. Get a toner. Tone from one of the dead recepts. you'll figure out where the open is that way. Make sure the hot is really dead.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

The Answer to this problem. One GFCI was behind the a headboard and half the basement was on the load side. The other was on the deck (fed from the basement) causing other GFCIs in the basement to trip as the deck outlet's hot screw was in contact with a wood screw holding the gem box in place.

To answer my original question: YES, the popped GFCIs resulted in bad tracing of the klein circuit breaker tracer. Before the fix it traced out to be Circuit #44 and after the fix, it traced out accurately to be circuit #17.

 

[hillbilly1]

I went behind an engineer that wired a house for one of his top clients, the maid said the Master bathroom receptacles didn’t work. No breakers tripped, so I knew it had to be a gfi somewhere. Luckily the basement ceiling was t grid, and I was able to figure out where the feed came down. Traced it to behind a workbench, sure enough, under the work bench was the tripped gfi! Corrected the three way and four way wiring in the living room while I was there too! LOL!

 

[grich]

A couple of weeks ago, a friend of mine called saying another buddy of his had no working outlets in the basement but no blown breakers. I told him to start hunting for tripped GFCI's. Found it...the guy had fed the basement plugs from one of the kitchen GFCI's. The buddy did mention, "oh yeah, sometimes we trip a breaker when we are running the heater in the basement and we try to make toast." Yep.

 

[ptonsparky]

Told one customer what to look for. Nope, she could not find the GFCI. Walked in, pressed the reset on the island GFCI. She looked at me in frustration and said “Bill me. You told me.”

 

[readydave8]

Told one customer what to look for. Nope, she could not find the GFCI. Walked in, pressed the reset on the island GFCI. She looked at me in frustration and said “Bill me. You told me.”

me too, sometimes with variations

 

[hbiss]

This is why I always recommend GFCI or DF AFCI breakers. Everybody knows to look for a tripped breaker. Feeding off a GFCI or AFCI receptacle is insanity. Nobody has a clue.

-Hal

 

[hillbilly1]

Told one customer what to look for. Nope, she could not find the GFCI. Walked in, pressed the reset on the island GFCI. She looked at me in frustration and said “Bill me. You told me.”

Did the same thing at our CEO's house, his basement went dead, but he couldn't find it. Went over there, his wife said the phones didn't work either, unplugged the phone system surge protector covering the outlet, and reset! LOL!

 

[hillbilly1]

We have the Ideal and Greenlee tracers, true they can trace open circuits, but my Amprobe is far more accurate in tracing live circuits, along with identifying shared neutrals or hots. I can accurately pull a single circuit out of a bundle of 50 very easily with deadly accuracy. Ideal and Greenlee tend to bleed onto other wires.