Working backwords

[Mr.Sparkle]

So I ran into an EC I know from the area this week and he had asked me if I could help him "catch up" because he is real busy & his other guy is a boozer and went mia blah blah blah.....So seeing how I don't have much on the horizon at the moment and he seems like a nice guy I figured why not give him a hand.

So............working with this guy (he is a 1 man shop) absolutely drives me up a wall. Don't get me wrong he is a very nice guy but MAAAAAAAN twisted romex everywhere, single gang 3 ways all over the place, 345647547524523 individually run pieces of romex stapled all cockeyed, 4 ways "stump" him, wire paths that make absolutely no sense, running and stap[ling ONE wire at a time where you will be putting MANY more, I could go on and on and on you get the idea.............IMHO he has little if any design ability and no ability to look at the big picture.

This guy has been around here for the better part of 10 years doing resi and light commercial and he keeps telling me how busy he is, then we got into talking about prices ...........no wonder why he is so busy, I wont get into exact numbers but he is waaaaaaaay low for our area. I do not even understand how he is making a dime. In the nicest possible way with my (extremely) limited business acumen I told him he was too cheap. He told me I am crazy and that his prices are the going rate in our area. I think he is to nice of a guy to realize why he is so busy right now. Not to mention doing half of your work twice will always keep you busy.

I actually feel bad for this guy............I'll do whatever he wants because I am helping him but man I try to interject my opinions and/or help and he just does not get it.......I am constantly internally watching him work and thinking "What are you doing and WHY????"

Anyone ever deal with this? How did you get through to someone like this?

 

[NolaTigaBait]

he has to work 5 days to make what you make in 2 probably....let him work himself to death...there is no hope for people like this...its called being narrow-minded..

 

[480sparky]

........ How did you get through to someone like this?

Offer to buy the job from him.

 

[G & G Electric]

I don't know the man, and can't vouch for his work. Judging by the thread he sounds like a scatterbrain, but don't be surprised if he told you a big one about his rates. You never said how much he paid you, but he may feel that you may ask for more if you knew how much he really made. Probably not the case at all, but just a thought:roll:

 

[360Youth]

Do what you can to help without stretching yoursaelf in any current commitments or any resemblence of liabilty to his work. I try and help others learn from what have learned (if they are interested) because I owe so much of what I know to learning from others. If he is going to cut his rates to try and stay ahead of the competion it will eventually catch up to him. I did a good deal of work back when it just me for money that I cringe at now, but it paid for what I wanted it to pay for and that was all I was looking for. I wouldn't do it now, but I have moved beyond that part of my career.

he has to work 5 days to make what you make in 2 probably....let him work himself to death...there is no hope for people like this...its called being narrow-minded..

I agree that many who work like this will always do so, but "narrow-minded" is a bit harsh for knowing what you know based on a two paragraph post.

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

I don't know the man, and can't vouch for his work. Judging by the thread he sounds like a scatterbrain, but don't be surprised if he told you a big one about his rates. You never said how much he paid you, but he may feel that you may ask for more if you knew how much he really made. Probably not the case at all, but just a thought:roll:

Scatterbrain....definitely, you should see his van :grin:

I don't doubt the rates at all, the initial discussion was right in front of the builder we are working for and was pertaining to him pricing something for the builder, my opinion on his prices came later when we had some alone time.

 

[wbalsam1]

The longer you fool around in the yard the closer you get to being hit with a switch engine.......get out now before you pick up any bad habits. :smile:

 

[Karl H]

I take great pride that I finally understand,"Those that do not

know how to plan,will lose more money than I will ever earn."

 

[LarryFine]

Offer to buy the job from him.

Not if he's already priced it!

 

[celtic]

Anyone ever deal with this? How did you get through to someone like this?

A friend of mine and I became EC's at about the same time...we had known each other for a few years before the new hats.
One day he calls me up....ask if I am free for a few days to help him catch up on an addition job ~ sure, when and where?
I get there, 1/2 the rough is done and I have NO IDEA what he doing

I keep my mouth shut, do as I am "told", and get him back on track.

Time goes by, he calls again...needs some help on a service ~ sure, when and where?
We do the job, I'm on the ladder at POA...."I think it looks a bit low"..."....just screw it where the other one was".

He calls me back a few days later....he failed the POCO inspection.

I had him help me on an apartment renov. , he didn't "get" my print...the other 2 guys did

We remain good friends...but we each take our own path in EC'ing.

Probably better that way.

 

[480sparky]

Not if he's already priced it!

Who says his price is too low?

 

[ptonsparky]

Just ask what they want done then put your blinders on.

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

Just ask what they want done then put your blinders on.

This is exactly what I do.

It just amazes me that someone runs their business like this.

For the record, I am in no way putting myself on a pedestal and do not claim to be gods greatest electrician but I cannot help but wonder what makes someone work like this? Is he just burned out? It is like he takes no pride in his work.

We did a split 200A service yesterday I did one panel he did the other and he actually made a comment about me taking longer because I was being too neat :-?:-?:roll: you know one of those "Nobody see's the inside of the panel..." coments. Ummm how bout' the inspector???? Oh and I did not take any longer than him, he just thinks I did because he huffs and puffs and makes a bigger mess while working.

 

[cadpoint]

Did you tell him about the Mike Holt Forum?

Did you tell him your Log-in name ?

 

[ramsy]

my opinion on his prices came later when we had some alone time.

Even if you said nothing your work and relative talent can speak for itself.

Time Warner's cable network has a Discovery channel a program called "The Dog Whisperer," where Ceasar Millan re-conditions the brains of psychotic-animal behavior with calm assertive energy.

IMO, the same animal kingdom applies to the mental cases that predominate the construction trades; especially the inside-electrical trade.

It's not just the relatively-uneducated ignorance to civil protocols and resources, but working with anybody experiencing custody, credit, or personal problems without any resources or therapy whatsoever.

For whatever reason, IMO these incompetent bosses are not unusual. I believe its the "Peter principle", which suggests management is always promoted to its highest level of incompetence.

Besides, if its more than price that makes this guy's "good will" superior to everyone else, then learning is a two way street.

Perhaps if you avoid the job-ownership pitfall of partnership, and calmly and assertively lead by example, he could be groomed to help you one day; as you walk his jobs, meet his customers, help him bid, or even take some jobs under your permit if he gets too busy.

 

[tonyou812]

So I ran into an EC I know from the area this week and he had asked me if I could help him "catch up" because he is real busy & his other guy is a boozer and went mia blah blah blah.....So seeing how I don't have much on the horizon at the moment and he seems like a nice guy I figured why not give him a hand.

So............working with this guy (he is a 1 man shop) absolutely drives me up a wall. Don't get me wrong he is a very nice guy but MAAAAAAAN twisted romex everywhere, single gang 3 ways all over the place, 345647547524523 individually run pieces of romex stapled all cockeyed, 4 ways "stump" him, wire paths that make absolutely no sense, running and stap[ling ONE wire at a time where you will be putting MANY more, I could go on and on and on you get the idea.............IMHO he has little if any design ability and no ability to look at the big picture.

This guy has been around here for the better part of 10 years doing resi and light commercial and he keeps telling me how busy he is, then we got into talking about prices ...........no wonder why he is so busy, I wont get into exact numbers but he is waaaaaaaay low for our area. I do not even understand how he is making a dime. In the nicest possible way with my (extremely) limited business acumen I told him he was too cheap. He told me I am crazy and that his prices are the going rate in our area. I think he is to nice of a guy to realize why he is so busy right now. Not to mention doing half of your work twice will always keep you busy.

I actually feel bad for this guy............I'll do whatever he wants because I am helping him but man I try to interject my opinions and/or help and he just does not get it.......I am constantly internally watching him work and thinking "What are you doing and WHY????"

Anyone ever deal with this? How did you get through to someone like this?

Man I feel like I know who it is.

 

[macmikeman]

From the original posters story it sounds like a typical story of an electricians helper or a fairly fresh licenced journeyman who trys to go out on his own without sticking to his employeer long enough to really learn how to wire, and second how to properly run a company. It usually starts out with "side jobs". I run across these types all the time. Alot of them train their own helpers to boot, and then you get some really clueless birdbrain "electricians" out there running around. And worse yet, many stay untrained for life.

 

[George Stolz]

I actually feel bad for this guy............I'll do whatever he wants because I am helping him but man I try to interject my opinions and/or help and he just does not get it.......I am constantly internally watching him work and thinking "What are you doing and WHY????"

Anyone ever deal with this? How did you get through to someone like this?

Do you expect me to believe that up to this point, you've only worked with the other 25% of people in this trade? Hogwash.

 

[iwire]

How did you get through to someone like this?

I think it is odd that you feel it is your business to tell him how to run his business.:-?

 

[220/221]

The only reason this guy is so busy is that he is unproductive and it takes him twice as long to do a job.