working it hot

[jim sutton]

Here's something I stumbled across, I thought it may be interesting to some of you.

web page

Apparently this concerns a fatality in which an electrician was killed while hooking up a 277V flourescent fixture.

We all need to be more careful. If an apprentice sees a journeyman working something hot, he may try it himself and not be so lucky.

To many companies have safety policies that are ignored.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: working it hot

Tried to read it.Could we get what happened in electrician english instead of lawyer talk?

 

[jxofaltrds]

Re: working it hot

I agree.

If it is "hot", above 70 degrees, I do not work. Thank you OSHA.

Mike P.

 

[jim sutton]

Re: working it hot

If you read on down there is an interview with some electricians that worked with this company.

This is just something I stumbled across on the internet, I know nothing of what actually happened.

I just thought it would be a good reminder to us all to be safe and to enforce safe work rules within our companies.

It seems to me that when I hear of an electrical worker who dies on the job, itsort of gets swept under the rug and we don't hear much more about it.

Lets all do our part to be safe and better yet teach apprentices to be safe.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: working it hot

Ever notice that almost all of these deaths happen on commercial,industrial or high rises.Very rare to hear a man died (any trade) on a single family home.I like to think if i am trouble shooting a house that everything is under my control and no one will be turning on circuits while im working.

 

[hurk27]

Re: working it hot

By Jim: like to think if i am trouble shooting a house that everything is under my control and no one will be turning on circuits while im working.

Not a good way to think.

As at anytime someone could turn on a switch or breaker before you know it. Been there done that.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: working it hot

jim walker,
more people get killed by 120 volt circuits than any other---and something doesn't have to get "accidentally turned on" for you to get killed. and working by yourself (strike one) on electricity in itself is dangerous and if you think because your working on a residence you are safe ----thats the second strike - common sense and respect for all job conditions when working in our trade is a must.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: working it hot

Are you suggesting 2 men on every job that might have power turned on ?

 

[jim sutton]

Re: working it hot

Lock outs that actually work would do the job.

Of course if someone actually cuts your lock off, you're screwed (or fried)

 

[iwire]

Re: working it hot

Originally posted by jimwalker:
Ever notice that almost all of these deaths happen on commercial,industrial or high rises.Very rare to hear a man died (any trade) on a single family home.

If I recall Roger worked for a company that lost a man in a crawl space of a house, hung up on 120 volts.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: working it hot

Bob yes 120 does kill no argument at all about that.
What i am saying is if i am trouble shooting a house i prefer being the only one within 5 miles of that house.That way i don't get some greeny turning on that tripped breaker.
Crawl spaces are scary .Just no real safe way to work on them except power off and locked.
Lock outs are only good if the man has a lock and key.
Ask your men to show you there LOCK!!!!!
I have had guys ask me why i carry a lock in my tool box.
Will that appliance repairman use the lockout ?
Not SHOULD but WILL.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: working it hot

you can get hurt by someone energizing a circuit by mistake--but most of the people electricuted are placing themselves in unusual situations. remember, your there to troubleshoot a problem - everyday or almost everyday i run into problems that outdo the last one. even the test equipment gets confused! we had one where the circuits feeding a law firms main computer couldn't be identified. they asked us to use our circuit tracer to determine what panel fed it. tracer wouldn't work on this circuit-- i changed the tracer's 9 volt battery- still wouldn't trace??? we had to physically follow the raceway back---found they had fed it from the floor below and the neutral was from the transformer two floors down!!! it's almost like we can't assume anything these days - "oh theats a neutral - it can't be hot" or these #12 wires they use for tieraps in panels --- sooner or later they are gonna short out!! it could be just as you reach in to move a wire!

 

[jimwalker]

Re: working it hot

Come on guys the reason your an electrician isn't the pay---it's that tingle you get.I miss TV work them 30 kv tingles really wake a guy up.I almost don't even care anymore if 120 bites me.

 

[hurk27]

Re: working it hot

Charlie
Most good surge suppressor's have filters in them that will block any atempt to trace the circuit. I found out the hard way also If any one trys to use a X-10 system make sure there is no surge or filters on that circuit as it to is useless.

 

[scott w]

Re: working it hot

Jimwalker,
With advice like yours, you might very well contribute to the death of a member that listens to you.
The last company I worked for had a man killed by working, against policy, hot.
After the "accident", several employees, the man's family, and the owner of the company had to seek psychiatric counseling.
The increase in Workmen's Comp put the company out of business.
Not funny

 

[jimwalker]

Re: working it hot

Scott i am sorry they lost a man.What exactly did he do ? Under wrong conditions yes you can get killed.I was brought up working things live.Even in high school we worked on live electric.There is no way to repair TV'S with them unplugged.Had i told my boss i wouldn't work on them live he would have asked why i wanted to be a repairman and then hand me my last check.In being an electrician there are times we must use volt meters.I have never been able to make them work on dead circuits!!!!! It is up to the individual to take needed precautions if working live.If live electric worries you then find a job that is strictly install and stay away from service calls.What does the words HOT CHECK mean to you?
In Florida we do things a bit different than up north.Not telling you to stand in water while reading voltage.Each job is different and so are the conditions,as the electrician it is up to you to know when to turn power off.The key word used in this business is QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN not apprentice that wants to try to do something he is not trained for.
Look at a recent post,think it said TRICKY SERVICE CHANGE or something.They raised a service and from what i gathered did it live.Now my self if thats on a dry roof no problem (gloves and insulated tools).He did this on a snow covered roof.My self i would say no to this situation.But i respect that man for determining the safeness of that job.

SCOTT:


Jimwalker,
With advice like yours, you might very well contribute to the death of a member that listens to you.

Scott there are members here that are very new to this field.They should not think of themself as electricians just because they got a check on friday from --- electric inc.
And i never told anyone to work something HOT .What i said was i do and will continue to do so.Now if it gets to 110 degrees i might back off.LOL

[ January 10, 2004, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]

 

[iwire]

Re: working it hot

Jim what you where taught in high school about how to work on TVs has absolutely nothing to do with what an electrician does.

You have told us you have apprentices work in live panels.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: working it hot

Bob in high school we did things like trouble shoot house wiring circuits on boards.
And yes i have allowed helpers in live panels.They were men that i worked with for months and i had faith in there ability or i wouldn't allow it.I got 3 new men assigned to me this week (should say 3 men got assigned me as there leader).The first thing i tell them is it will be a few weeks till i know there abilities ,so don't be upset that im watching every thing they do.
And if anything is true ,wiring is far safer than working on TV's.I had many holes burned thru my fingers from 200 to 700 volts of DC.and been knocked a few feet from 50 kv picture tubes.
Maybe all this is why 120 just doesn't phase me much.

 

[iwire]

Re: working it hot

Jim you are definitely out of touch, you should really take an electrical safety course or a 10 hour OSHA course, at least than you would be aware of the rules you are breaking. :roll:

You worry about AHJs getting sued, do you ever think of the liability you are under for telling employees to work hot.

It will be indefensible if it every went to court.

Yes ultimately it will be the company's owner that takes the biggest hit but you as the man in charge at the site can be sued by the person or family of the person that you told to work it hot.

All that aside the bigger issue is the safety of these guys, you do not seem to give a rats *#@ about the people working under you,

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: working it hot

Jim,

In being an electrician there are times we must use volt meters.

There is no problem doing that as long as you have the correct PPE. In many dwelling units, cotton outer clothes, safey glasses, voltage rated tools and voltage rated gloves would be all you need.

Maybe all this is why 120 just doesn't phase me much.

You need to stop making posts that say this. Your posts many lead to unsafe behavior on the part of others.
Don