Working safely with metal implants

[jbucker125]

Hi, I work in a large regional jail, because of that 99% of the time I have to work everything hot. I had a total knee replacement this year and since then I have had one occurrence where I got shocked by a neutral, I felt the shock through my metal knee implant. Other than the obvious is there anything else I can do to keep from being shocked through my knee?
since I now have metal implants should I even be working things hot?
Thanks

 

[sameguy]

So no ppe?
to work hot you need the correct ppe, plus documentation from the "powers that be" to work hot; or OSHA will get you.

 

[ptonsparky]

So no ppe?
to work hot you need the correct ppe, plus documentation from the "powers that be" to work hot; or OSHA will get you.

OSHA won't get you, they will get your employer.

Why does working in a large regional jail make any difference as to shutting off the power?

I had a customer ask why we had to shut the power off. I told him if anything went wrong, we would both be going to jail. At least your supervisors won't have far to go.

 

[Besoeker3]

Why does working in a large regional jail make any difference as to shutting off the power?

I wondered about that too. Maybe security issues?

 

[hbiss]

Metal implants aren't the problem. Working hot is.

-Hal

 

[Jraef]

I wondered about that too. Maybe security issues?

If so, it's a bad initial design. They should have redundant systems with Main-Tie-Mains so that one set of gear can be worked on with the facility powered by the other.

 

[jbucker125]

Yes we can not typically cut anything off where there are inmates due to security concerns, if you cut off lights then the cameras can not see and record what is going on, such as inmates attacking one another or you and rape prevention. There are no redundant systems here but we have three large generators for loss of power.
PPE ? Yes I use it when I feel it is necessary, things have to be worked on quickly again because of security and because of that I do wear gloves and arc protection when working on 480 but not always on 208 again due to time constraints.

 

[Besoeker3]

Yes we can not typically cut anything off where there are inmates due to security concerns, if you cut off lights then the cameras can not see and record what is going on, such as inmates attacking one another or you and rape prevention. There are no redundant systems here but we have three large generators for loss of power.
PPE ? Yes I use it when I feel it is necessary, things have to be worked on quickly again because of security and because of that I do wear gloves and arc protection when working on 480 but not always on 208 again due to time constraints.

Couldn't the inmates be locked in their cells when maintenance work is going on?
My background is industrial power electronics (in UK). We wouldn't get by with doing maintenance on live equipment. Actually, we had to submit written risk assessments and method statements before we were even allowed through the gates. And we had to padlock everything off.

 

[growler]

I felt the shock through my metal knee implant. Other than the obvious is there anything else I can do to keep from being shocked through my knee?

I don't claim to be a genius or even all that smart but I really can't see where having a knee implant would cause anyone to get shocked.

You may feel the effects of getting shocked more in the area of the metal implant but I doubt that is the cause.

Could there be any adverse effects from getting shocked when you have an implant (other than the obvious) ? I don't have the slightest idea so my advice would be to consult with your doctor to see if you should continue to do electrical work on anything live.

I have never given things like this much thought but it may not be all that good for the implant, I don't know.

 

[LarryFine]

I wonder what size conductor is required to bond my replacement hip.

 

[hbiss]

Yes we can not typically cut anything off where there are inmates due to security concerns, if you cut off lights then the cameras can not see and record what is going on, such as inmates attacking one another or you and rape prevention. There are no redundant systems here but we have three large generators for loss of power.
PPE ? Yes I use it when I feel it is necessary, things have to be worked on quickly again because of security and because of that I do wear gloves and arc protection when working on 480 but not always on 208 again due to time constraints.

No emergency lighting? No cameras with built-in IR illumination? This is going to be a planned shutdown, so as mentioned, why can't the inmates be locked down?

Sounds to me that they care about saving a few dollars and the welfare of the inmates than you.

OSHA isn't going to care about any of those excuses. You can't work live.

-Hal

 

[MAC702]

...OSHA isn't going to care about any of those excuses. You can't work live.

This.

I'm guessing this is a private firm, and not a government-owned jail?

 

[winnie]

I bet the shock current through the nerves touching the metal causes more pain/sensation at that location, but that the current is flowing through your entire body is the actual hazard.

I've said this before: 'working hot' is a design failure. Think about it, in a very generic sense _everyone_ works 'hot' all the time. I don't shut off the breaker to plug my toaster in; and shutting off the breaker is itself an operation on a live electrical system.

In some cases simply throwing a switch is considered 'working hot' and requires PPE or using some sort of remote operation tool.

So what is the difference between throwing a light switch and 'working hot'? IMHO is the the risk of coming in contact with live conductors or causing a non-contained arc flash, or some other reasonably expected risk that would be eliminated by shutting off the power.

Well if (for whatever reason) a facility cannot tolerate shutting off the power, then the system should be designed to be worked upon with no more risk than flipping a light switch or plugging in a toaster. Such a system would of course be more expensive to build in the first place, but then you could leave the power on while the electrician could work safely. If it is so desperate that lights must be left on, then you should have 2 lighting circuits supplying every area so that you can shut one down and still have light. If there were demand, then breaker panels could be designed to have finger safe buss stabs and breakers. etc. IMHO systems should be designed so that there is no need to 'work hot'

-Jon