Working Space around motor starters

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mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I often find there is not working space as defined by 110.26 around starters for motors.

In many mechanical rooms the walls are jammed full of plumbing and other pipes and there is no way to get 30" of space in front of a starter. Sometimes even the motor itself is within the working space.

Does anybody know of exceptions to the working space rule? If not, what's a guy to do when there just isn't any place to mount a starter and have it meet code?

Mike
 
:-?

Are motor starters "...likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized..."?
 
celtic said:
:-?

Are motor starters "...likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized..."?
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Yes. Anybody believe they don't? I'm looking for that theory or any other clever ways to meet code when there is no wall space.
 
celtic said:
:-?

Are motor starters "...likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized..."?
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You can make a good argument that the vast majority of field located motor starters would not require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized. Just because it is common to see people reset the overload without opening the disconnect first does not mean you have to do it that way.
 
mkgrady said:
Yes. Anybody believe they don't?
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I don't.

mkgrady said:
I'm looking for that theory or any other clever ways to meet code when there is no wall space.
Click to expand...

You have already decided that the starter requires working space...I am of the opposite opinion.
Motor starters are, IMHO, not "...likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized...".
Sure it happens that they might need servicing..but is it "likely"?
If is "likely", there may be other issues that need to be addressed.
 
celtic said:
I don't.



You have already decided that the starter requires working space...I am of the opposite opinion.
Motor starters are, IMHO, not "...likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized...".
Sure it happens that they might need servicing..but is it "likely"?
If is "likely", there may be other issues that need to be addressed.
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I want to agree with you. My job would be a lot easier if I could take the position that they do not require working space.

Given the verbage you cite above from the code, how would you take a voltage reading on the line side of a starter during troubleshooting if it were not energized? I assume this would be a question the inspector would ask me and I don't know how to answer. I'd like to discover other questions that may be asked and what answers could support not having to meet the working space requirement.
 
Troubleshooting is not something that is likely to occur in a properly installed and maintained system.

If you are looking to apply all the rules of 110.26 to starters, it may very well be an all uphill battle.
 
celtic said:
Troubleshooting is not something that is likely to occur in a properly installed and maintained system.

If you are looking to apply all the rules of 110.26 to starters, it may very well be an all uphill battle.
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I'm not looking to find that 110.26 (working space ) applies to motor starters. I am looking to find the opposite. I'm surprised nobody is taking the position that starters require working space and I'm happy about that.

My concern is that if I install starters without considering 110.26 I may get red tagged. Apparently everybody agrees with you so I am satisfied (and surprised) that 110.26 does not apply to motor starters.
 
mkgrady said:
Apparently everybody agrees with you so I am satisfied (and surprised) that 110.26 does not apply to motor starters.
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LOL

By "everybody"...you mean petersonra and you? :D

I'm actually surprised some of the more learned members hadn't jumped in here.:-? ....I mean a silly ground up/ground down thread gets more action than this one :smile:

Happy to help and this was one of the least painful threads in awhile :cool:
 
Why have the starter at the motor in the first place? The typical mechanical room with steam lines, etc. is a lousy place for a starter. Put it in the electrical room. I know some older buildings they are one and the same. I sure remember one mechanical room where they had a large MCC. It was a bucket of rust! Couldn't get out fast enough.

RC
 
kspifldorf said:
Amp draws are very common around here.:D I never like leaning over a steam pipe or sump pit to do that.
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I hear you, but what you are doing is IMO not likely to be done on most starters. I believe most are ignored.

So, what do you think is required? Working space as defined by 110.26 or not? I understand you might want it but do you believe the code requires it?
 
Ragin Cajun said:
Why have the starter at the motor in the first place? The typical mechanical room with steam lines, etc. is a lousy place for a starter. Put it in the electrical room. I know some older buildings they are one and the same. I sure remember one mechanical room where they had a large MCC. It was a bucket of rust! Couldn't get out fast enough.

RC
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In this case the mech and elec room is the same. Do you believe working space is required?

I'm really surprised. Of the 150 plus electricians that have read this post, nobody has taken the position that working space is required for motor starters.

I started out thinking is was required and I'm thrilled nobody agrees with that. I have struggled, and sometimes failed, to find the room to do it. I will still do it where convenient, but I won't spend alot of extra time anymore, or worry about a red tag.
 
mkgrady said:
In this case the mech and elec room is the same. Do you believe working space is required?

I'm really surprised. Of the 150 plus electricians that have read this post, nobody has taken the position that working space is required for motor starters.

I started out thinking is was required and I'm thrilled nobody agrees with that. I have struggled, and sometimes failed, to find the room to do it. I will still do it where convenient, but I won't spend alot of extra time anymore, or worry about a red tag.
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Motor starters are NOT likely to require adjustment, testing, troubleshooting?

Where are these statements originating from? Politicians? Or another rare breeed that is out of touch with real life?:grin:
 
weressl said:
Motor starters are NOT likely to require adjustment, testing, troubleshooting?

Where are these statements originating from? Politicians? Or another rare breeed that is out of touch with real life?:grin:
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When I read the code I agree with you. I don't want to, but I do. I install a lot of starters and many times I find it difficult , if not impossible to provide working space.

Where I have installed starters without the typical working space, I always hold my breath after I call for the inspection. So far no red tags. That may be because they don'y look very close, but if and when I receive one I am hoping to use whatever I can learn from the members here as a justification for not needing it.

I'm really surprosed that so few people have taken a position on this thread.

This is the first time I have asked a question on this forum and didn't feel more informed than I did before I asked.

I feel like inserting a frown face, but I don't know how.
 
weressl said:
Motor starters are NOT likely to require adjustment, testing, troubleshooting?

Where are these statements originating from? Politicians? Or another rare breeed that is out of touch with real life?:grin:
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Let's do the dance...

(A) Working Space.
Working space for equipment operating at 600 volts, nominal, or less to ground and likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall comply with the dimensions of 110.26(A)(1), (2), and (3) or as required or permitted elsewhere in this Code.
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Does this mean we shall provide working space about:
  • switches
  • receptacles
  • junction boxes
  • luminaries
  • etc
  • etc
Why?
Why not?
 
430.12 has a call out for wire bending space in the peckerhead.

430.14 talks about wheere a motor shall be located.

430 section8gos on about MCC's

430.102 says the disco has to be within sight of...

430.107 says it has to be readily accesible (still not 110.26)

430.245 tlks about larger motors, but still no 110.26

How am I doing so far?
 
Trouble shooting of equipment happens all the time, and I have never known it to happen before it is installed. :wink:
Stating an installation that was perfect during installation may not require testing or the like later is ludicrous. By the NEC, all installations are perfect the "day of". Many things may happen later to change that situation.
I always require working space around equipment based on the first paragraph in -
110.26. Spaces About Electrical Equipment.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
Trouble shooting of equipment happens all the time, and I have never known it to happen before it is installed. :wink:
Stating an installation that was perfect during installation may not require testing or the like later is ludicrous. By the NEC, all installations are perfect the "day of". Many things may happen later to change that situation.
I always require working space around equipment based on the first paragraph in -
110.26. Spaces About Electrical Equipment.
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Pierre,
Where do you draw the line? he wording of 110.26 needs some work as the existing wording prohibits the required kitchen counter receptacles as the counter is within the required work space and receptacles are equipment per Article 100.
 
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