Working Space for panel replacement

[trevorm]

This panel needs to be replaced with a larger panel to make room for some new circuits with AFCI/GFCI breakers. Now working space is a concern since it is right up against the wall on the left side. I would really like to avoid moving the panel to the right and all that's involved with that. I'm going to put a call into the inspector as well but I'd like to hear some thoughts on move it or leave it as is. What would you do?

 

[electrofelon]

It's fine and code compliant as is.

 

[trevorm]

It's fine and code compliant as is.

Even with no space to the left of it? I thought there needs to be 30" wide working space so 15" to each side from the center of the panel. It would be great if i'm interpreting that wrong and its code compliant as is!

 

[suemarkp]

You need 30" width, but it doesn't have to be centered. The 30" space can begin at the very left edge of the panel, or the right edge, or anywhere in between.

 

[infinity]

Even with no space to the left of it? I thought there needs to be 30" wide working space so 15" to each side from the center of the panel. It would be great if i'm interpreting that wrong and its code compliant as is!

As mentioned you only need 30" of total width so the location is fine. Is this a service?

 

[charlie b]

Can't you buy a panel that has the same width as the existing one, but is taller (i.e., to accommodate more circuits)?

 

[electrofelon]

Can't you buy a panel that has the same width as the existing one, but is taller (i.e., to accommodate more circuits)?

Definitely. Essentially all load centers are 14.25" wide. SQ D used to make some narrower ones a long time ago and I have come across a few, they were like 10" wide IIRC.

 

[jim dungar]

...used to make some narrower ones a long time ago and I have come across a few, they were like 10" wide

Most loadcenter panels, from all manufacturers, were less than 14.5" wide. It was not until the 80's, when UL increased there working compartment dimensions, that the panels were maximized for 16"w stud bays.

 

[roger]

 

[electrofelon]

Most loadcenter panels, from all manufacturers, were less than 14.5" wide. It was not until the 80's, when UL increased there working compartment dimensions, that the panels were maximized for 16"w stud bays.

Hmmm really? I swear ive seen very few less than 14.5" load center, even ones from the '70s and '80s

 

[trevorm]

As mentioned you only need 30" of total width so the location is fine. Is this a service?this is the main panel fed from the meter , I much appreciate the clarity.

Yes this is the service panel (fed from meter) thanks for the clarity on working space, much appreciated!

 

[curt swartz]

Hmmm really? I swear ive seen very few less than 14.5" load center, even ones from the '70s and '80s

GE, FPE, Zinsco were all about 12" during that time period.

 

[trevorm]

This square D qo panel is only 12" wide but i will be moving the stud to the right over and replacing with a 14.5" wide panel unless i can find a narrow one which is very unlikely.

 

[jim dungar]

Hmmm really? I swear ive seen very few less than 14.5" load center, even ones from the '70s and '80s

I was working for Square D when they introduced the wider and taller panels around 1985. For the most part they simply added a W to their old part numbers.

 

[electrofelon]

I was working for Square D when they introduced the wider and taller panels around 1985. For the most part they simply added a W to their old part numbers.

Did a reno on a building that was built in 79-80. It had a narrow and wide square D QO panel side by side. Looks like they were installed at the same time, but maybe the wide was added later.

 

[electrofelon]

GE, FPE, Zinsco were all about 12" during that time period.

Maybe some of the stuff I saw is not as old as I think it was. Or maybe I was just so excited to throw it in the dumpster I didn't notice it was less than 14.5 in wide.

 

[jim dungar]

It had a narrow and wide square D QO panel side by side.

They did have some wide panels, such as tose with 200A main fusible pullouts.

 

[electrofelon]

They did have some wide panels, such as tose with 200A main fusible pullouts.

What i meant by "wide" was 14.5". So its a 10 or 12" or whatever and a 14.5" . 1980. So you are saying they didn't make 14.5 in wide load centers in 1980?

 

[LarryFine]

Definitely. Essentially all load centers are 14.25" wide. SQ D used to make some narrower ones a long time ago and I have come across a few, they were like 10" wide IIRC.

Same here, especially in industrial installations, single-column panels made to fit in the space of a vertical I-beam.

 

[infinity]

Yes this is the service panel (fed from meter) thanks for the clarity on working space, much appreciated!

Then the EMT in the bottom of the panel is a problem. Since it contains servcie conductors that are run inside of the building it needs to be encased in concrete.