Workmanship and my new company

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davidbananas999

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Minnesota
Hey guys, so i have been working for a company for about 4 months now and I need some advice. Before i get started let me say I recently relocated to MN and have tried 3 companies before finding one that has work I like to do, with coworkers I enjoy being around. I have a family with children to support on a fixed income so simply jumping to another company is not an option.

With that said, I am a little bothered by some of the workmanship I am required to do to save costs on labor and materials. For example, we are wiring a new restaurant with very detailed blueprints, and they have specced pendants to hang nicely over the bartop, but the locations for the boxes happen to land right between all of the ceiling joists. My journeyman says "just place them on the joists as close as they can be" but thats a good 6" away from the speccced location. My initial thought is to just stub up some 2x4 to get the right spot but that would take a whopping 20 minutes. Im not in a position to argue with him, but this is a nice restaurant and I want them to be happy with the final product.

Also, they insist on me strapping 1 piece of MC to a stud or top plate, then cable tying other pieces of MC to that one, over and over. Sometime there will be bundles of 5 or 6 or more cables tightly bundled together for pretty long runs. They say "well the inspector hasnt called us on it yet."

I just dont know what to do. I am fairly new to the company and dont want to be that guy but come on! How do I get these guys to put in a little professionalism?

Thanks for tips!
 
davidbananas999 said:
Hey guys, so i have been working for a company for about 4 months now and I need some advice. Before i get started let me say I recently relocated to MN and have tried 3 companies before finding one that has work I like to do, with coworkers I enjoy being around. I have a family with children to support on a fixed income so simply jumping to another company is not an option.

With that said, I am a little bothered by some of the workmanship I am required to do to save costs on labor and materials. For example, we are wiring a new restaurant with very detailed blueprints, and they have specced pendants to hang nicely over the bartop, but the locations for the boxes happen to land right between all of the ceiling joists. My journeyman says "just place them on the joists as close as they can be" but thats a good 6" away from the speccced location. My initial thought is to just stub up some 2x4 to get the right spot but that would take a whopping 20 minutes. Im not in a position to argue with him, but this is a nice restaurant and I want them to be happy with the final product.

Also, they insist on me strapping 1 piece of MC to a stud or top plate, then cable tying other pieces of MC to that one, over and over. Sometime there will be bundles of 5 or 6 or more cables tightly bundled together for pretty long runs. They say "well the inspector hasnt called us on it yet."

I just dont know what to do. I am fairly new to the company and dont want to be that guy but come on! How do I get these guys to put in a little professionalism?

Thanks for tips!
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum.

First question: some people will get upset over a 6" difference in light position, especially in residential. That said, we often run into problems with lights that would wind up inside ductwork or plumbing if put where the prints called for them. Sometimes making them all evenly spaced, and in a row with each other is the best you can do, tho here it's a matter of laziness vs necessity. If the customer doesnt like what the co does and calls it out on prints, your co will eat it, not you. You can always say "I told you so".

Securing MC to other MC cables is a direct violation of 300.11(C) and since it's very visible, would likely fail an inspection here. That said, see 330.30(C) before calling that out; tie wrapping cables together for neatness may not be the same as supporting them, depending on the install.
 
David:

Your company was likely the low bidder on this commercial job ? The cosmetic details may be what the job or no job boils down to.

Even spacing like previously said, could be the elec design eng did not look at the structural details and the exact light location makes no difference unless the final interior has reflecting mirrors ?

Cosmetic ? Go with as instructed until you have your own company.

Unsafe ? Then discuss with super.
 
A long time ago I worked for a guy who cut corners. We were wiring a chain restaurant. The spec said EMT. The spec allowed fixture whips in MC. He had me wire an entire ceiling all in MC, no EMT. Next week I spend the time ripping out all the MC and replacing it with EMT and 36" whips.

Now we are wiring multi-building condo project. He runs triplex from the temp power pole to the first building, then to the second building ...
Uses bare as Neutral and ground. Fed it from a 50A 250V GFCI breaker. At each building he has me put in a board with GFCI receptacles and drive a ground rod which connects to bare triplex conductor, the green and white screws of each GFCI. It was a dry day. I told him the first time it rains, this will all fail. He tells me he is a IBEW trained Master electrician and I am a lowly trade school Journeyman. It rains, the 50A breaker trips and retrips when closed. He eventually hires a crew with a bucket truck to spin a 4th conductor along the 800 feet of triplex and separate the neutral and ground. I never bothered to tell him that the problem would be solved by using a standard 50A breaker, after all, I was a lowly trade school Journeyman.

Eventually he had so many run-ins with the general contractor that he was banned from the job trailer and the foreman had to act as liaison.

This was my first job and I stayed 3 month.
 
davidbananas999 said:
Hey guys, so i have been working for a company for about 4 months now and I need some advice. Before i get started let me say I recently relocated to MN and have tried 3 companies before finding one that has work I like to do, with coworkers I enjoy being around.
Click to expand...

If you like the work and you like your coworkers then hang in there and learn as much as you can. Much of electrical work is based on experience.

You have to trust that the journeyman knows what he's doing (this time) and if he is wrong you will know better next time.

I don't like doing restaurants but this is based on experience and I know that there are other types of work that I enjoy much more. The problem with electrical is it's not always possible to find the jobs that you like doing.
 
Probably best thing is to do as you are told. if that results in rework, it is not on you. you will get paid OT to fix it so you benefit from it.

Spend your time learning as much as you can. You may find out that a lot of things are not as cut and dry as it may seem at first glance. For instance, specs often appear to be iron clad and inviolable but a lot of times you have to understand where the customer is willing to accept deviations and where they are not. You also have to understand that many times a contractor has unstated understandings with project managers to do the job for a price the PM is willing to accept while both sides fully understand that it means a few things in the specs are going to slide. Some of that kind of thing only comes with experience, both on the job, and with specific customers.
 
davidbananas999 said:
Hey guys, so i have been working for a company for about 4 months now and I need some advice. Before i get started let me say I recently relocated to MN and have tried 3 companies before finding one that has work I like to do, with coworkers I enjoy being around. I have a family with children to support on a fixed income so simply jumping to another company is not an option.

With that said, I am a little bothered by some of the workmanship I am required to do to save costs on labor and materials. For example, we are wiring a new restaurant with very detailed blueprints, and they have specced pendants to hang nicely over the bartop, but the locations for the boxes happen to land right between all of the ceiling joists. My journeyman says "just place them on the joists as close as they can be" but thats a good 6" away from the speccced location. My initial thought is to just stub up some 2x4 to get the right spot but that would take a whopping 20 minutes. Im not in a position to argue with him, but this is a nice restaurant and I want them to be happy with the final product.

Also, they insist on me strapping 1 piece of MC to a stud or top plate, then cable tying other pieces of MC to that one, over and over. Sometime there will be bundles of 5 or 6 or more cables tightly bundled together for pretty long runs. They say "well the inspector hasnt called us on it yet."

I just dont know what to do. I am fairly new to the company and dont want to be that guy but come on! How do I get these guys to put in a little professionalism?

Thanks for tips!
Click to expand...

say yes, sir. and put it in.

6" for a pendant that is called out, on the restaurants i work on, would get called out on the punch list.

and when your inspector calls your foreman on strapping, and makes a chew toy out of him, you'll get to
do it correctly.

smile, and go to the bank.
 
fmtjfw said:
He tells me he is a IBEW trained Master electrician and I am a lowly trade school Journeyman.
Click to expand...

bow down in homage to the god of the electron, a legend in his own mind.

i watched an IBEW trained master electrician, who happened to be my journeyman,
after telling me i was "just an apprentice", drop an entire floor of fusible links on the
first floor of a hospital, three days before it was due to be opened. about 90 zones.
several hundred fusible links. in tunnel ceiling. took a dozen guys three days around
the clock to fix them all.

never backfeed the #2 brown wire with a chloride pyrotector analog system with a
9 volt battery on a simpson analog meter. i learned a lot from him.

everyone teaches, and teaches all the time. some people's lives simply serve as a
warning to others.
 
mistakesdemotivator_large.jpeg
 
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