Would grounds outside a box be per code?

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ritelec

ritelec

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A while back I was mentioning about an older way of installing metal boxes with nm cable... no-one really knew what I was talking about ....
I ran into this install so took a couple pictures for review...think the house was built in 1957.
Wondering, is there a code saying the box has to contain the ecg's? AND, I'm guessing with this technique the grounds wouldn't be counted in conductor fill ??

:- )
 

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Never seen it done that way before but it doesn't appear like it's a code violation although somebody might argue that the requirement to run the equipment grounding conductor with the circuit conductors is not being met because the equipment grounding conductor is outside the box.
 
I just found this.......

One wiring practice that has since been eliminated through this growth was running a “Wild” ground. With lots of inventory of NM without ground and it still being produced in 1962, some
jurisdictions applied the code to simply required grounding, but not that the ground had to be in
the cable assembly. The practice of running #16 bare out of the service panel and from device to
device was employed. Other jurisdictions had required grounding around 1958 even before the code change.

So “wild” ground wiring was prevalent for about seven years. The problem with a
wild ground was losing the ground path. If a homeowner added a sliding door, or did a room
addition, this obscure lone wire looked like building wire and was simply cut out and eliminated;
typically losing the ground to as much as half the house. It is common in older homes with the
old cloth wrapped NM to sometimes find this “wild” ground. Just make sure it stays intact to
those areas you’re not going to rewire.

Another practice with grounding that lasted until the early 90’s was making up grounds outside
of the junction-box when using NM cable, and with either metal or plastic boxes. In this practice
ground wires were pulled back through the box entrance and crimped together outside of the box,
thus hiding the connection point, while running just one ground conductor back into the box for
the device ground
Click to expand...

here... http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=187324&p=1865816#post1865816
 
But what if both sides of the wall are finished, and the ground splice or connection is no longer accessible?
 
steve66 said:
But what if both sides of the wall are finished, and the ground splice or connection is no longer accessible?
Click to expand...

Was my thought also with the screw entering from the back side.
Guess a nut with one hole crimp connector.


Also. If it was a metal box, why would you need to get to the connection ??
 
steve66 said:
But what if both sides of the wall are finished, and the ground splice or connection is no longer accessible?
Click to expand...
You can splice your new grounding conductor to the box.



I have seen many houses done this way. One project all of the EGCs were made up outside of the load center enclosures.
 
ritelec said:
A while back I was mentioning about an older way of installing metal boxes with nm cable... no-one really knew what I was talking about ....
I ran into this install so took a couple pictures for review...think the house was built in 1957.
Wondering, is there a code saying the box has to contain the ecg's?

:- )
Click to expand...

Imo, what you have there may not be necessary illegal even today

250.148

Continuity and attachment of Equipment Grounding Conductors to Boxes-

"If circuit conductors are spliced within a box or terminated on equipment within or supported by a box, all equipment grounding conductor(s) associated with any of those circuit conductors shall be connected within the box OR to the box with devices suitable for the use in accordance with 250.8 and 250.148 (A) through (E)"


That said, no way would I do it that way and don't see how that would pass inspection anywhere.
 
petersonra said:
Never seen it done that way before but it doesn't appear like it's a code violation although somebody might argue that the requirement to run the equipment grounding conductor with the circuit conductors is not being met because the equipment grounding conductor is outside the box.
Click to expand...
i think they are run with the conductors, the cable runs into the box, egc folded back and pulled through the punchout.
 
The box in the last photo has other problems. It looks unsupported, has no cover and looks like it has box fill issues.
 
Most of my work is remodel work on houses built in the 50s - 70s

Around here, maybe one third of the time the EGC will be made up outside the box. Sometimes the EGCs would be folded back through the knockout, and sometimes they would poke through the back of the box through the small mounting holes.

I've never seen the EGC fastened to the box from the outside. Around here, one of them would be wrapped around one of the NM clamp screws before being poked back through the box. No pigtail that way either
 
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