Would you, or not??

Status
Not open for further replies.
Was part of the design team for the space station power system back in the early 90's, involved mostly with solar array sequential switching unit and the DC-DC converters.

A few ultra-safety gung ho folks at Huntsville wanted the 'latest' in safety measures, including very 'fancy' GFCI and arc fault detection.
Arc fault in those days was in infancy. (imo still is!)
The AFCI concept then was a full computer designated to run FFT (Fast Fourier Transforms) on the DC distribution system waveforms looking for frequency domain signatures of arcing, corona, or partial discharge down to picoamp levels.

False indications far outnumbered any real arcing (especially in a wiring system built to man rated space standards!) and the 'fancy' GFCI tripped a lot also set to the gung ho folks ultra safety criteria.

Have not worked space station for over 20 years, but have heard that all the 'fancy' computer controlled safety disconnect measures have been 'turned off'.

....... not too many 8 YO sticking paper clips into outlets on space station, and for sure no nails thru NM :lol:

even as much as computer technology has reduced computing sized (aka your smartphone), there is not much chance of a breaker sized unit including enough (at a reasonable cost) to do the level of analysis done for space station waveforms - which still was not sufficient for valid AFCI.
 
No
Like the emt/pvc idea, little expensive. Use 3/4".
I would like to see how many k&t houses are still around, how many nongrounded houses, etc., and what ratio of fires per by cause. Most would be human error.
The opening spacing code was to get rid of cords under carpets, polarized for shock, gfi for gnd/water shock.
The afci isn't ready for prime time, but can only get there by mandate; the profit alone won't subsidize the R&D.
 
MAC702 said:
I hesitate to say anything, and probably shouldn't have even dropped the connection. Let's say he won't use them. He did some independent testing that also led to a major manufacturer's recall of some.
Click to expand...

Why hesitate? Say it all. You won't ever regret it, nothing will happen to you, trust me. As long as you don't say a specific name there is no absolutely issue. Everyone knows their piece of truth but never adds it to the collective understanding.

My money is that it wasn't just the testing he witnessed, but the history and evolution discussed at UL. The arcing theory of fires wasn't so much a grand discovery by UL proven beyond a reasonable doubt, but one that manufactures kept paying UL to validate and tie relevance into the real world. From the start they also had doubts on using microprocessors, and IEC/BS7671 which was being used as inspiration further gave hint on the limitations of electronics.
 
SceneryDriver said:
I see GFCI protection as a much more demonstrably useful life safety feature. I'm actually surprised that we haven't seen more code-mandated adoption of GFCI.

SceneryDriver
Click to expand...

I instructed NEC classes starting with the 1999 cycle. Every new code I would say "there are more GFCI applications". I had thought the code had reached the end of GFCIs, but then drinking fountains, vending machines, tire inflation...I even got an GFCI application added.
 
On the other hand, GFCI technology seems _very_ mature and reliable. In my kitchen every receptacle is a GFCI, including the fridge, with _zero_ problems.

-Jon
 
IMO I feel that if a dwelling is wired correctly according to even the 2008, 2011 NEC code, its as safe as it could be electrically wise.

Arc faults to me are the manufactures ploy to turn a $3.50 cent overcurrent device into a $45 dollar item.

I'm more concerned with the flooring and ceiling joist's made of sawdust and glue that when ignited act as kindling.

Only drawback with NM I see is mice.

I'm all for safety and GFI's are good but I don't see requiring them on garage door openers or refrigerators.

Imagine a mother with 3 kids and a car full of groceries pulling up to the door in the pouring rain only to have it not open due to nuisance tripping.

Sorry to get off topic, that's another thread.

No at this time I would not use Arc fault.
 
norcal said:
If you were building your own home in a location that did not have inspections, would you use AFCI's? A little background, I live in what is probably the hottest real estate market in the US, nothing like 14,000 homes being incinerated to change things overnight and want to get the hell out of California, downside not ready to sell yet, but thought it would be interesting to hear the opinion of others. The market is not going to be as crazy as it is currently, where people are paying as much as $50K over asking price in order to get a property, when it does correct there is going to be a lot of folks holding property worth less then what they paid for it. One location am considering has no inspections other then septic & I have held the opinion that the work that you do should be the same whether inspected or not, but really don't care for AFCI's.
Click to expand...

HECK NO!! In fact, I happen to live in a state that doesn't even use AFCI's (Michigan). I highly commend the state of Michigan for seeing right through the hype and other B.S. that got them into the Code book in the first place. But no, even if I built a house in a different state to live in, I would NOT use AFCI's if I didn't need inspections in that area. I would do everything else to Code, though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top