Would you rewire it?

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Would you rewire it?

  • Yes, I would rewire it to a lighting circuit.

    Votes: 3 15.8%

  • No, I would reconnect to the kitchen appliance circuit.

    Votes: 16 84.2%
  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .
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tortuga

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
I am replacing my backsplash and countertop. Now I decided to move the light switch for my kitchen sink light to the left side of the sink. I opened up the box and to my surprise the switch is connected to the 20A small appliance circuit.
I am wondering how many of you would rewire it to a lighting circuit or just move the switch?
Its not trivial to do so. Light will be a 13W LED.
Just for fun I looked it up in a 1940 code book I have and it was not allowed even then so its not 'grandfathered'.
 
480sparky said:
Do tell where you found this as the SABC requirement didn't appear until 1965.
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I am looking at paragraph 2109 1940 NEC "Receptacle Circuits in Dwellings. In dwelling occupancies, branch circuits which supply receptacle outlets in the kitchen, laundry, pantry, dining room and breakfast room shall not supply other outlets and such circuits shall have conductors not smaller than No. 12"
 
tortuga said:
I am looking at paragraph 2109 1940 NEC "Receptacle Circuits in Dwellings. In dwelling occupancies, branch circuits which supply receptacle outlets in the kitchen, laundry, pantry, dining room and breakfast room shall not supply other outlets and such circuits shall have conductors not smaller than No. 12"
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That sounds like an ordinary, every-day plain-jane 20-amp circuit.
 
480sparky said:
I say they mean 'outlets in other areas'. Keep in mind..... back then it was common for lighting outlets to be receptacles...... even in the ceilings.



Let me know where 210.52(B)(2) is in the 1940 NEC.
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Since the 1940 NEC defined an "outlet" the same as the 2017 NEC and like today they defined a receptacle outlet as " An outlet equipped with one or more receptacles, not of the screw shell type"
And they defined a "lighting outlet" as "An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder, a lighting fixture or a pandant cord terminating in a lamp holder"
We can be sure that even in a old house receptacle outlets in the kitchen, laundry, pantry, dining room and breakfast room should be on a 20A circuit not sharing with a lighting outlet.
 
480sparky said:
I say they mean 'outlets in other areas'. Keep in mind..... back then it was common for lighting outlets to be receptacles...... even in the ceilings.
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But the old rule mentions "receptacle outlets" and the circuits that serve those in the areas spec'd by the op.



480sparky said:
Let me know where 210.52(B)(2) is in the 1940 NEC.
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Its not, but that is beside the point- the receptacle is in part of an area specified under the old code, clearly not allowed then.

The 2 sabc per dwelling rule appeared on the scene in the 1959 NEC (220/3/B) and contained similar language to the 1940 code w/ respect to mixing lighting outlets and receptacle outlets in the areas the op was talking about.
 
What the actual intention was I doubt anyone here is old enough to say one way or the other.

As it stands, the language is ambiguous. Just like parts of the Code today.
 
480sparky said:
What the actual intention was I doubt anyone here is old enough to say one way or the other.

As it stands, the language is ambiguous. Just like parts of the Code today.
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I don't see it as ambiguous at all.
If it supplies receptacle outlets in the listed areas it shall not supply other outlets. That means on non-receptacle outlets anywhere and no receptacle outlets in other non-listed areas. If the receptacle outlets happen to supply lighting, I do not see a problem. If the lighting is hard wired, then it would be prohibited.

There are easy ways to specifically state any of the alternatives you suggested, so I am willing to accept the perfectly clear common English sentence structure as meaning exactly what it says.

What I would do for my own house is not necessarily what I would take responsibility for at a customer's house.
 
Well thanks everyone for the votes I moved the switch and kept it on the kitchen appliance circuit for now. I did figure out a way to add a tail to the new switch box so I can put it on a proper lighting circuit some day without having to rip the back splash open.
 
tortuga said:
I am looking at paragraph 2109 1940 NEC "Receptacle Circuits in Dwellings. In dwelling occupancies, branch circuits which supply receptacle outlets in the kitchen, laundry, pantry, dining room and breakfast room shall not supply other outlets and such circuits shall have conductors not smaller than No. 12"
Click to expand...
The 1940 NEC Definitions make it clear that, for the purposes of this quoted rule, only Receptacle Outlets are allowed . . . That is quite unambiguous.
 
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