WOW Defib

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mikeames

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I was just watching modern marvels and it was said that the external defib units put out 2000 volts at 40 amps!!!! WOW I had no idea. I figured the voltage would be high so 2000 volts does not shock me, but the 40 amps was mind blowing. If I was forced to guess I might guess 1 to 5 amps. I wonder if patients get burn marks from them.
 
From a medical text:

"The voltages can range from 200 to 1,700 volts. The shocks can be repeated up to three times. Since it may take more than one shock to resuscitate the heart, the doctors administering the three shocks will start off with a small voltage and increase the amount of voltage with each shock. The shock to the chest is also measured in joules. This quantity is a measurement of energy and is different from the voltage. My research shows the energy can start off as low as 40?60 J but can not be greater than 360?400 J. Anything over that amount would not result in saving the person's life."


 
I was just watching modern marvels and it was said that the external defib units put out 2000 volts at 40 amps!!!! WOW I had no idea. I figured the voltage would be high so 2000 volts does not shock me, but the 40 amps was mind blowing. If I was forced to guess I might guess 1 to 5 amps. I wonder if patients get burn marks from them.
I would think 40 amps would cook internal organs.:confused:
 
I going to go with the layman's answer.

First there is no electric charge and is absent with death, I was thinking
maybe one to two ratio for a jolt, not one to ten, or is that one to one hundred!

One have to remember how this is applied the mass of the human body!

One also have to remember that its applied through a machine, IE filtered, conditioned power.
 
What did they say of humans, carbon based unit and bags of water, in a line from Star Trek...

Come on Marc, think of it as the inverse to a megger! :roll:
 
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Being an emergency medical technician the answer is yes the patient can be burned. Usually a gel is applied and hair is shaved from the area to minimize this though.
 
Being an emergency medical technician the answer is yes the patient can be burned. Usually a gel is applied and hair is shaved from the area to minimize this though.

I had a procedure 98-ish, and when I woke up I had the worst "sunburn". They had to shock me. I'd have never known if not for the burns.
 
I was just watching modern marvels and it was said that the external defib units put out 2000 volts at 40 amps!!!!

You may have both high voltage and high current, but the _duration_ gets limited to minimize damage and maximize the chance of doing some good.

Old school systems worked by charging up a capacitor bank and than discharging it through the paddles. Once the capacitor was discharged, no more current flow.

I'm sure that the newer systems still use the basic technique of charging up a capacitor, but I don't know if they do any sort of smarter modulation of the output, or if they use a transformer to adjust the output voltage.

If they have direct access to the heart, say when they are restarting the ticker after open heart surgery, then the energy levels used can be very low, say only a couple of Joules.

-Jon
 
From Wilipedia:
In 1959 Bernard Lown commenced research into an alternative technique which involved charging of a bank of capacitors to approximately 1000 volts with an energy content of 100-200 joules then delivering the charge through an inductance such as to produce a heavily damped sinusoidal wave of finite duration (~5 milliseconds) to the heart by way of 'paddle' electrodes. The work of Lown was taken to clinical application by engineer Barouh Berkovits with his "cardioverter".

The Lown waveform, as it was known, was the standard for defibrillation until the late 1980s when numerous studies showed that a biphasic truncated waveform (BTE) was equally efficacious while requiring the delivery of lower levels of energy to produce defibrillation. A side effect was a significant reduction in weight of the machine. The BTE waveform, combined with automatic measurement of transthoracic impedance is the basis for modern defibrillators.

1000V, 200J is a pretty big capacitor.....
 
As far as what they say on Modern Marvels I would not bet my life on the accuracy of what I hear on that show. It is primarily an entertainment show.


Take this for what it is worth, it comes from Wikipedia.



Closed-chest method
Until the early 1950s, defibrillation of the heart was possible only when the chest cavity was open during surgery. The technique used an alternating current from a 300 or greater volt source delivered to the sides of the exposed heart by 'paddle' electrodes where each electrode was a flat or slightly concave metal plate of about 40 mm diameter. The closed-chest defibrillator device which applied an alternating current of greater than 1000 volts, conducted by means of externally applied electrodes through the chest cage to the heart, was pioneered by Dr V. Eskin with assistance by A. Klimov in Frunze, USSR in mid 1950s.[2]

In 1959 Bernard Lown commenced research into an alternative technique which involved charging of a bank of capacitors to approximately 1000 volts with an energy content of 100-200 joules then delivering the charge through an inductance such as to produce a heavily damped sinusoidal wave of finite duration (~5 milliseconds) to the heart by way of 'paddle' electrodes. The work of Lown was taken to clinical application by engineer Barouh Berkovits with his "cardioverter".


Move to direct current
The Lown waveform, as it was known, was the standard for defibrillation until the late 1980s when numerous studies showed that a biphasic truncated waveform (BTE) was equally efficacious while requiring the delivery of lower levels of energy to produce defibrillation. A side effect was a significant reduction in weight of the machine. The BTE waveform, combined with automatic measurement of transthoracic impedance is the basis for modern defibrillators.
 
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