X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

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shawn474

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Not sure where to post this,if it's in the wrong place forgive me.I am wiring a doctors office and there is a x-ray room in it.I have wired more than one x-ray (cat scan,pan,etc.) over the years and have found the installers to be knowledgeable and competent until now.The x-ray 'tech' has a couple code violations and counting and he still lacks a few days of finishing up.The first day he hit the job he informed me that he was not going to supply the 24v dc relay to turn the 'x-ray in use' sign on/off and when I pulled out my copy of the paperwork to show him he was supposed to,he blew up,started a rant and yelled that I 'obviously don't know what the eff was going on' in front of the contractor and the customer.That said,I went to other parts of the building to work and left him alone,my part in the x-ray room was done per the contract and the techs (there are two from Ohio and a local 'supervisor' who just started with the company) obviously didn't need me. :) So after two days they come to me and tell me they are ready for me to pull the (supplied) power cable to the gantry.(per the contract) I asked that they vacate the small room so my apprentice and I could accommodated them,and tried to pull the cable.It was four feet short and they were gone.I glanced around and saw a couple small things that the local ahj could and would (should) gig them on.( instead of bushed holes they took the ends off the wireway,also running individual conductors through free air to supply 24v dc to a junction box) What is my company's liability in this instance? Will my job get turned down because of the work of the tech? I am looking for a little info before I go to the boss.We have a permit on the job and I assume it covers everything,I don't think the x-ray is a separate permit.O yeah,when they found out the cable was too short,they went and bought another cable for me to pull,they are going to splice it.Different cable from the first,I didn't look at it very long I was walking to my truck but it looked nothing like the cable supplied and I'm wondering what method they will use to splice it.Do I have the right to demand to inspect their work if there is only one permit? I have never run into this problem before,sorry if this all sounds dumb. :confused:
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

Shawn, you can have their work inspected by the local inspector. Their prints most likely say all permits will be by others which can be under the GC, Owner, or the EC, what ever the case may be.

In my area they are scrutinized in most every installation by the local electrical inspector and must humble themselves to ask us to help them get things right.

I hope you have the same type of inspector. ;)

Roger
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

We just finished a doctors office.The x ray equipment wasn,t there.Our disconnect was in place.We got our final by having a seperate permit pulled at the suggestion of the inspector.He told us that often he has problems over the x ray men doing there own wiring.This way we are off the hook and so is the inspector.
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

I had an inspector that refused to sign off on the electricians permit because of an item the xray people did. He wanted the xray installer to cut a cable and install a plug and receptacle on it. I finally convinced him that was more dangerous than leaving a flexible cable coming out of a wall box.

So it is probably best if you can finish and get your work inspected before the xray guys come in. It really doesn't seem fair that the xray guys can cause your permit to get rejected. You may want to call the inspector and ask him just what he does intend to inspect.

It does seem like the xray contractors I have dealt with feel they are above every one else, and any codes.

Steve
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

Am I correct in considering the x-ray room a patient care area? I wired the light switches,receptacles and panel feeding the machine with redundant grounding but the techs ran two cables,one a two-conductor #6 ST cable (made by Hitachi) and a flat ribbon # 6 ground into the jb which is fed from my panel and then made a joint (with wire nuts) onto a piece of # 8 "romax" (I can't read the writing on the cable) with a # 10 gec.It doesn't look like there is a place for a connector on the machine itself so I don't know if is a poor design or it does not need a redundant ground but if that gec joint they made in my jb (they ran their cable through the ko w/ no connecter) comes loose there is 50 amps ungrounded going into the x-ray machine.This is the type of machine that you sit in.AHJ will not be on the job until final inspection which is about 10 days from now,just want to get my ducks in a row.So far the NEC violations include cables w/ no connecters or bushings,some are running out the front of the wireway cover.Techs told me they don't get inspections,only my work does and the ahj has no jurisdiction over their work,'it's only signal cable'.I pulled out my copy of the NEC to show them a couple things but they dismissed me. :)
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

most inspectors understand where you stand in this situation --- call him and explain whats happening before the inspection. let him do the dirty work and write up those items in violation of the code. then let the x-ray people correct them or pay you to correct them. and you will save face with him because he knew before the inspection that you were not responsible for these violations!
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

I agree with Charlie and the rest. Make sure the inspector knows about this beforehand.

Techs told me they don't get inspections,only my work does and the ahj has no jurisdiction over their work...

They must think they are installing an elevator. They are the only ones that I know of where this would be true.

And don't leave us hanging. I just love it when guys like this get busted! :)

-Hal
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

I'm not really sure the NEC applies to xray equipment (other than the feeders).

It seems like it must have a UL or some other listing as a single piece of equipment even though that "piece of equipment" requires wiring throught ducts and conduits ect.

I'm sure some of the installers believe they aren't bound by the NEC.

Steve
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

I believe there is some truth to their thinking that they are not bound to the NEC. Anything wholely within the bounds of a factory assembled system would appear to be outside the bounds of the NEC.

OTOH, the installation does have to meet the various codes, so their equipment would have to accomodate whatever requirements the NEC has.
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

http://www.angelfire.com/mech/350motor/index3.html

Couple of pictures.Top is of the three cables,in order,gec and then the two-conducter power cable intended for the x-ray.Bottom cable in the first pic is the 8-2 "romax" the techs went and bought when they found out the original cables were too short,two #8 and a #10 gec.Bottom pic is of the jb.
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

Is that PVC stuck through the 3/4" KO? :eek:

Without question this would fall under the NEC. Besides that, I can't believe anybody other than a DIY'r would do work like that or a company would allow it to happen.

Probably a "why bother, I'll never see them again" situation but I would probably be mad enough to rattle the cages of some higher-ups in the company. I would relate the unprofessional attitude and lack of knowledge of their employees and the liability their installation could cause the company. Just maybe some heads will roll.

-Hal
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

Not pvc,that is the two conducter #6 cable coming from the gantry,the insulation difference between what the engineer designed and the cable it is spliced to is considerable.From that jb to the panel is the #8 cable.
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

They pulled 8/2 NM cable through the EMT for the feed?

I agree with the others, a phone call to their supreriors should be in order.
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

Peter, the problem with these people are, their superiors have no more of a clue than the installers and will actually support them. :D

Roger
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

Originally posted by roger:
[QB] Peter, the problem with these people are, their superiors have no more of a clue than the installers and will actually support them. ;)
Click to expand...
Gee, that's great. :roll: :mad:

I mean, if all I need is some romex and blue wire nuts, I could start hooking them up tomorrow with the stuff I have in my garage.

It's hard to believe this stuff happens with medical equipment.
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

In Washington State, X-ray technicians that are factory trained are exempt from licensing and certification for working on X-ray machines. We changed our state law to comply with a federal law, but I don't know what the federal law is.
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

On recent jobs for xray equipment, the manufacturer's drawings called for 3 dividers in the wireways to separate power and low voltage wiring and other stuff. I went throught the trouble of specifying it, the electrical contractor went through all the trouble of installing it (not to mention the cost). I was told the installers came in and asked "What the .... is this" as they pulled out all the dividers.

It is suprising that these people aren't beter regulated.

Steve
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

Originally posted by steve66:
It is suprising that these people aren't beter regulated.

Steve
Click to expand...
There really is no such thing as "better" regulation. The added cost of regulations tends to encourage bare minimum compliance with whatever standards exist.
 
Re: X-ray Tech - Contractor Liability

X-ray technicians that are factory trained are exempt from licensing and certification for working on X-ray machines.

I think the key words here are working on X-ray machines.

I have no problem with them working on something that is a factory assembly, has been listed and they have been trained to service and install it.

What I see here is these guys are doing electrical work, something that is obviously beyond their qualifications. Conduit, wiring, the J boxes on the wall as well as the feeder back to the panel are NOT part of the machine but external premises wiring.

I cannot believe that any interpretation or intent of the law you mention allows X-ray techs to perform electrical work beyond the actual machine itself.

I also believe any licensing or certification mentioned has to do with X-rays and the required safety measures rather than granting an electrical license. A refrigeration tech is licensed and certified also but he cannot perform electrical work beyond the HVAC equipment.

-Hal
 
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