Your experience with LED streetlights

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cubdh

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Does anyone have experience evaluating, testing, piloting LED streetlights? If so I would love to hear about your experience. I am in the process of doing this.
 
tom baker

tom baker

First Chief Moderator & NEC Expert
Staff member
Location
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Master Electrician
There are many very successful projects nationwide
Here is a good place to start
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/ssl/consortium.html, this is the municipal solid state lighting consortium.
Get lighting vendors in to demo projects. We looked at GE, Holophane, Cooper. Determined that GE couldn't deliver product....
Also have the lighting rep do photometric layouts to compare light levels to whats being removed. The IES has standards RP-8, that may need to be complied with.
 
C

cubdh

Member
LED vendors and Lux measurement for streetlights

LED vendors and Lux measurement for streetlights

Utility scale.

I have looked at all the demonstrations on http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/ssl/consortium.html
Have also read the ANSI/IESNA RP-8-00
We are going to pilot some of the major providers of LED streetlights.

Would anyone be willing to share experiences with LED streetlight vendors (good and bad) in private?
For my own testing purposes what equipment would you recommend to test lux levels for streetlights?

I have seen very expensive equipment > $2000.00 and much cheaper equipment $200.00. For my purposes of measuring lux levels for HPS and LED lights would the Minolta T-10A be adequate? Would I need something better?
Could I get away with something cheaper?

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
mgookin

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
As a manufacturer of outdoor lighting controls we do business with utilities and other organizations who have lots of lights. With a utility there are two different approaches depending on how your organization operates. There are utilities who generate their own power and there are those who are resellers only. I'll share my experience with two contrasting utilities and then one conversion company.

One utility has nuclear turbines spinning at night and lighting is off peak power for them. They don't shut down nuclear turbines at night. They don't get an electric bill and they don't seem real concerned about fuel cost, even on gas turbines.
They have .75MM lights.
They have a very elaborate lighting lab and do all their own testing regardless of what manufacturers tell them.
Their HID lights are on a 4.3 year service interval. They pay $55 per trip charge to a subcontractor who replaces the bulb, ballast and control all at the same time every 4.3 years.
They pay $65 for a HID fixture.
They pay $465 for a LED fixture.
The LED fixture is projected to be a 15 year service interval even though the manufacturer says it's a 23+ year fixture.
Not paying trip charges and not buying bulbs, ballasts & controls every 4.3 years offsets capital costs (to what extent I don't know).
The more expensive the fixture, the more important the lightning protection. Lightning can come from the line side or from a direct hit to the fixture. While clamping can suppress line surges, there's not much that's going to stop a direct hit to the fixture. We've seen the whole pole split in half right down the middle.
The inrush on a LED is a steeper waveform and a higher magnitude but for shorter duration than on a HID or incan.

Another utility is a reseller (electric cooperative). They pay an electric bill. They pass through all of their costs and don't have any testing facilities and don't seem real concerned about their old HID's being on during the day or off at night. I guess I'd describe them as much more lackadaisical relative to a big utility who generates their own power.

And then there's this company who will change out your HID's at no upfront cost to a city or other owner of large quantities of outdoor lights. They install a LED conversion kit in the existing fixture. The customer pays them 50% of the energy savings for 5 years. For years 1-3 they offer full parts & labor warranty; for years 3-5 they offer parts only warranty. After 5 years do what you want with them. If this buys you time while quality improves or is affirmed and prices come down it may be worth looking at.

Hope this helps.
 
R

Ragin Cajun

Senior Member
Location
Upstate S.C.
mgookin said:
As a manufacturer of outdoor lighting controls we do business with utilities and other organizations who have lots of lights. With a utility there are two different approaches depending on how your organization operates. There are utilities who generate their own power and there are those who are resellers only. I'll share my experience with two contrasting utilities and then one conversion company.

One utility has nuclear turbines spinning at night and lighting is off peak power for them. They don't shut down nuclear turbines at night. They don't get an electric bill and they don't seem real concerned about fuel cost, even on gas turbines.
They have .75MM lights.
They have a very elaborate lighting lab and do all their own testing regardless of what manufacturers tell them.
Their HID lights are on a 4.3 year service interval. They pay $55 per trip charge to a subcontractor who replaces the bulb, ballast and control all at the same time every 4.3 years.
They pay $65 for a HID fixture.
They pay $465 for a LED fixture.
The LED fixture is projected to be a 15 year service interval even though the manufacturer says it's a 23+ year fixture.
Not paying trip charges and not buying bulbs, ballasts & controls every 4.3 years offsets capital costs (to what extent I don't know).
The more expensive the fixture, the more important the lightning protection. Lightning can come from the line side or from a direct hit to the fixture. While clamping can suppress line surges, there's not much that's going to stop a direct hit to the fixture. We've seen the whole pole split in half right down the middle.
The inrush on a LED is a steeper waveform and a higher magnitude but for shorter duration than on a HID or incan.

Another utility is a reseller (electric cooperative). They pay an electric bill. They pass through all of their costs and don't have any testing facilities and don't seem real concerned about their old HID's being on during the day or off at night. I guess I'd describe them as much more lackadaisical relative to a big utility who generates their own power.

And then there's this company who will change out your HID's at no upfront cost to a city or other owner of large quantities of outdoor lights. They install a LED conversion kit in the existing fixture. The customer pays them 50% of the energy savings for 5 years. For years 1-3 they offer full parts & labor warranty; for years 3-5 they offer parts only warranty. After 5 years do what you want with them. If this buys you time while quality improves or is affirmed and prices come down it may be worth looking at.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Interesting. What is the difference in energy consumption between the HID and the LED fixtures? Assuming, of course, the real delivered light is the "same". It's all too easy to take before and after pictures that show whatever they want to show. Yes, I am a skeptic!

RC
 
mgookin

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
Ragin Cajun said:
Interesting. What is the difference in energy consumption between the HID and the LED fixtures? Assuming, of course, the real delivered light is the "same". It's all too easy to take before and after pictures that show whatever they want to show. Yes, I am a skeptic!

RC
Click to expand...

We don't get into that. We just make controls.
 
C

cubdh

Member
mgookin said:
As a manufacturer of outdoor lighting controls we do business with utilities and other organizations who have lots of lights. With a utility there are two different approaches depending on how your organization operates. There are utilities who generate their own power and there are those who are resellers only. I'll share my experience with two contrasting utilities and then one conversion company.

One utility has nuclear turbines spinning at night and lighting is off peak power for them. They don't shut down nuclear turbines at night. They don't get an electric bill and they don't seem real concerned about fuel cost, even on gas turbines.
They have .75MM lights.
They have a very elaborate lighting lab and do all their own testing regardless of what manufacturers tell them.
Their HID lights are on a 4.3 year service interval. They pay $55 per trip charge to a subcontractor who replaces the bulb, ballast and control all at the same time every 4.3 years.
They pay $65 for a HID fixture.
They pay $465 for a LED fixture.
The LED fixture is projected to be a 15 year service interval even though the manufacturer says it's a 23+ year fixture.
Not paying trip charges and not buying bulbs, ballasts & controls every 4.3 years offsets capital costs (to what extent I don't know).
The more expensive the fixture, the more important the lightning protection. Lightning can come from the line side or from a direct hit to the fixture. While clamping can suppress line surges, there's not much that's going to stop a direct hit to the fixture. We've seen the whole pole split in half right down the middle.
The inrush on a LED is a steeper waveform and a higher magnitude but for shorter duration than on a HID or incan.

Another utility is a reseller (electric cooperative). They pay an electric bill. They pass through all of their costs and don't have any testing facilities and don't seem real concerned about their old HID's being on during the day or off at night. I guess I'd describe them as much more lackadaisical relative to a big utility who generates their own power.

And then there's this company who will change out your HID's at no upfront cost to a city or other owner of large quantities of outdoor lights. They install a LED conversion kit in the existing fixture. The customer pays them 50% of the energy savings for 5 years. For years 1-3 they offer full parts & labor warranty; for years 3-5 they offer parts only warranty. After 5 years do what you want with them. If this buys you time while quality improves or is affirmed and prices come down it may be worth looking at.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...


The utility i work for is a reseller of expensive energy (3x as much as in the states). however our situation regarding street lights is very different from utilities in the states. The utility/customers absorbs much of the streetlight energy bill so it is in our best interest to make them as energy efficient as possible. It is true that electricity prices are set so that the utility makes a set rate of return nor matter the circumstances however if we can lower rates for the customers by converting to LED then why not?

I have seen that the more obscure providers of LED streetlights offer payment plans like the one you mentioned (taking a cut of the energy savings)
 
mgookin

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
cubdh said:
The utility i work for is a reseller of expensive energy (3x as much as in the states). however our situation regarding street lights is very different from utilities in the states. The utility/customers absorbs much of the streetlight energy bill so it is in our best interest to make them as energy efficient as possible. It is true that electricity prices are set so that the utility makes a set rate of return nor matter the circumstances however if we can lower rates for the customers by converting to LED then why not?

I have seen that the more obscure providers of LED streetlights offer payment plans like the one you mentioned (taking a cut of the energy savings)
Click to expand...

Do you find your lights on late in the morning, early in the evening, and/ or when clouds go over?

And do you control each light independently, ganged on contactors, or on a separate grid for outdoor lighting?
 
C

cubdh

Member
mgookin said:
Do you find your lights on late in the morning, early in the evening, and/ or when clouds go over?

And do you control each light independently, ganged on contactors, or on a separate grid for outdoor lighting?
Click to expand...

Mgookin,

I really haven't noticed how the lights behave late in the morning and early in the evening. Our lights are controlled via stand alone photocell and they are on the same grid as everything else.
I am somewhat aware of the benefits of using a control system to turn on and off lights and dim them, to name just a few of the benefits, but I am concerned that the components of the control system becomes an additional source of failure especially when high quality LED luminaries should last 15 years or so. That being said we are looking at the possibility of using control systems to monitor and control our streetlights.

Mgookin, can you send a link or information regarding the control systems the company you work for makes?
 
mgookin

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
cubdh said:
Mgookin,

I really haven't noticed how the lights behave late in the morning and early in the evening. Our lights are controlled via stand alone photocell and they are on the same grid as everything else.
I am somewhat aware of the benefits of using a control system to turn on and off lights and dim them, to name just a few of the benefits, but I am concerned that the components of the control system becomes an additional source of failure especially when high quality LED luminaries should last 15 years or so. That being said we are looking at the possibility of using control systems to monitor and control our streetlights.

Mgookin, can you send a link or information regarding the control systems the company you work for makes?
Click to expand...

I'll send you a private message with a link to our product page.

If you have time & budget, you may want to consider LightFair International in Las Vegas in early June. I went to it last year when it was in Philadelphia and it's incredible. I believe it is the largest convention of the lighting industry worldwide. http://www.lightfair.com/lightfair/V40/
 
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