Your home /afci install?

[jaylectricity]

But then WHY....is there GFCI cordsets on dryers?
Obviously, to ward off a Darwin Award for a person....and as we both agree, does nothing for the BC.

So then WHY...can't the same be done for other products used in a home (as detailed above)

The GFCI is to protect personnel from faulty equipment or wet conditions. So hair dryer manufacturers are protecting the users of their product.

The AFCI is to protect the wiring in the circuit. If there are arc-faults in the walls, or in splices up-circuit from the receptacle in use, an AFCI cordset isn't going to protect anything.

 

[sparkyjim]

well if something is plugged in a receptacle and causes the afci to trip its not the breakers fault. the breaker is doing its job. get a new vaccuum.

i dont like it when people get mad when a breaker does its job. people always ask me to take GFCI's out because they keep tripping when they plug the christmas lights in outside

The vacuum's are the problem. One of the first ?'s I ask is " what type of vacuum do you own?" When they reply "Dyson", I know I'll be having issues.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

well if something is plugged in a receptacle and causes the afci to trip its not the breakers fault. the breaker is doing its job. get a new vaccuum.

The fact that the AFCI trips does not mean that it is the appliance's fault. Some equipment that is working properly and is completely safe, produce a wave form that the AFCI thinks is a hazardous arc. This is not the same as with GFCIs where, in most cases, there is an actual ground fault in the equipment that is hazardous that causes the GFCI to open the circuit.

 

[celtic]

The AFCI is to protect the wiring in the circuit. If there are arc-faults in the walls, or in splices up-circuit from the receptacle in use, ...

Not disagreement here...

....an AFCI cordset isn't going to protect anything.

However...



Well if the circuit is operating properly w/o anything plug in...but trips when an item is plugged in..where does the fault lay?
With the homes wiring or the appliances?

The vacuum's are the problem.

Some equipment that is working properly and is completely safe, produce a wave form that the AFCI thinks is a hazardous arc.

This is why I say:
Full home test before occupancy - then have the manufac.s provide AFCI protection on cordsets.

In the case of homes built prior to 2002 - AFCI protection isn't an issue?
Provide AFCI cordsets.

 

[iwire]

First off let me say that I am no fan of AFCIs and how they seem to be pushed on us before they really work.

For the purposes of this post lets assume AFCIs do what there supposed to.

IF the big issue with AFCI protection is protecting the wiring from various installers penetrating the insulation....why not require a AFCI test procedure of the ENTIRE home before occupation?

It seems to me they are just as worried about things that may happen in the future. Say grandma decides to use a 16d nail to hang a picture.

Now the HO moves into a problematic free home...and let the manufac.s put the silly ends on their products.
The EC sells a safe product...the manufac. sells a safe product.

That leaves the circuit unprotected which goes against what seems to be the intent of AFCIs.

When we start getting into homes built prior to 2002, AFCI protection is non-existent. It may very well be decades before the home is re-sold and - in some localities - require various death defeating devices like AFCI protection. But in the meantime...what? Let 'em burn?

How is that different from all the homes that do not comply with todays code?

But then WHY....is there GFCI cord sets on dryers?
Obviously, to ward off a Darwin Award for a person....and as we both agree, does nothing for the BC.

Still apples and oranges to me.

A GFCI on the appliance cord will get the job done.

An AFCI on the appliance cord will not get the job done.

 

[celtic]

So iwire, to be clear on your position:

An AFCI on the appliance cord will not get the job done.

Some protection is not better than none.

...and why the complete omission of kitchen lighting?

 

[iwire]

So iwire, to be clear on your position:

Some protection is not better than none.

And fully protected is better then some protection.

You seem to be saying we should never be required to protect the entire circuit and that the manufacturers should just do it on their end.

Well that will leave a much longer part of the circuit unprotected.

...and why the complete omission of kitchen lighting?

I have no idea but do you really think it will stay that way?

 

[celtic]

You seem to be saying we should never be required to protect the entire circuit and that the manufacturers should just do it on their end.

Not at all.
What I have been saying is:

Full home test before occupancy - then have the manufac.s provide AFCI protection on cordsets.

It seems to me they are just as worried about things that may happen in the future. Say grandma decides to use a 16d nail to hang a picture.

If grandma decides to go postal with framing gun in her house...no amount of fail safes will prevent some damage to something...be it a piece of NM or a PEX supply line or the neighbor next door who forgot to put on his Kevlar leisure suit and helmet.

If an AFCI device every makes it to the marketplace...what sort of protection will it offer from grandma?

Type AC really isn't all that

*********************

I have no idea but do you really think it will stay that way?

Now that everyone knows...no

 

[SEO]

I would use them in my home. If you want to get rid of them submit a code proposal.:roll: :smile:

 

[iwire]

If grandma decides to go postal with framing gun in her house...no amount of fail safes will prevent some damage to something...

OK so the overcurrent protection might as well be done at the load end of the branch circuit.

I am done, I have no idea what we are arguing about. :grin:

 

[JohnJ0906]

The vacuum's are the problem. One of the first ?'s I ask is " what type of vacuum do you own?" When they reply "Dyson", I know I'll be having issues.

Yup, Dyson has been a big problem vacuum, IME.

SquareD also admits that some vacuums cause their AFCIs to trip (although they don't name brands.)

 

[MF Dagger]

I would use them in my home. If you want to get rid of them submit a code proposal.:roll: :smile:

I seriously believe that there was some back room deal making that went on to get afci's brought so fully into the code so quick. And THAT is what my problem is with them.

 

[electricmanscott]

whats wrong with afci's? a properly wired circuit will cause no problems for them. \

If this were actually true I'd agree with you.

 

[SEO]

I seriously believe that there was some back room deal making that went on to get afci's brought so fully into the code so quick. And THAT is what my problem is with them.

I think that you may be right!