Your opinion on residential dock

[hardworkingstiff]

Customer is building a new home and dock (which will consist of a 40' fixed pier with a gazebo on the end, then an 18' gangway down to a 40' floating dock (where a boat will be tied up on either side. Dock will be finished before the home.

They want to have a cable run from a power center down on the end of the floater, up the gangway (underside of course), under the fixed pier, then into a conduit that will run to the house (eventually). They would like to leave enough cable coiled up until the house is ready to receive it. I suggested to the architect a small panel or junction box be installed at the beginning of the fixed pier to make an easy transition to standard wiring going back to the building instead of running the type W cable in a conduit all the way back to the building.

That was a no go. Customer does not want to see any JB, panel, nothing.

I was thinking about this some more, and this dock really should be classified as a separate structure, which will mean there will need to be a means of disconnect and a re-referencing of the ground wire to earth. The AHJ has not historically considered a dock a separate structure, but I don't know how they came to that conclusion.

So, can the customer's desired install be done to NEC standards (I think not, but would love it if someone could show me how it can)? Money is always a consideration, but money is not the driving issue. You need to remember that a lot of these people have more money that they can use, and they want what they want.

Thanks to all that reply.

 

[jwelectric]

Article 682 will be your major driving force along with Article 225

 

[augie47]

I would make sure the inspector is enforcing Art 682 as if you follow all the rules including 682.14 & 682.33, you will probably have a disgruntled homeowner.
(No inspector in this area has been willing to enforce 682 on a single family homeowner dock)

 

[infinity]

Do you see a contradiction between 682.3 and 555.1 last paragraph?

I would make sure the inspector is enforcing Art 682 as if you follow all the rules including 682.14 & 682.33, you will probably have a disgruntled homeowner.
(No inspector in this area has been willing to enforce 682 on a single family homeowner dock)

So what do they enforce?

 

[augie47]

Do you see a contradiction between 682.3 and 555.1 last paragraph?

I do. That's one reason I made the suggestion to disucss it with the inspector.

So what do they enforce?

Normally, Chapter 3 wiring methods.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

It sure looks like 682 was partially put in to override 555.1 last paragraph.

What about the separate structure issue? Is the pier/dock/gazebo a separate structure (thereby requiring a disconnecting means and re-referencing the ground to earth?

 

[infinity]

I do. That's one reason I made the suggestion to discuss it with the inspector.

Seems that 682.3 was changed in the 2011 without regard for the wording in 555.1.

 

[micahbarror]

Quibbles

Quibbles

Despite the guidelines outlined. Emphasis on guidelines in the NEC, we all should question is this conducive to the project. Is the jbox/additional grounding an overboard kneejerk reaction to the architect. You seem experienced enough to know if an instillation is going to be problamatic and or hazardous. At those points regerence for a defense. Otherwise you are just oneupping the whitecollar. I do know an outsiders objective is easier than when embroiled and subjective to said matter.

 

[growler]

The AHJ has not historically considered a dock a separate structure, but I don't know how they came to that conclusion.

I may be a little crazy but I think most of these docks are not in the jurisdiction of the local authorities.

I have been told that because these are mostly under the jurisdiction of the Army Corps of Engineers that they can't issue a local permit ( for the dock) or give me permission to do anything. Things could be different where you are.

I would think that a dock is a seperate structure because it can even be a seperate jurisdiction. Just because the authorities don't enforce the NEC all work should still meet NEC standards.

 

[zbang]

with a gazebo on the end

While I could be convinced that a 20' flat wooden thing sticking out in to the water might not be a 'structure', if there's a constructed gazebo on the end of 80+ feet of pier, I'd say you have a structure*. Might even count as a Art. 553 Floating building.

*if a single 4x4 post can be considered a 'structure', not calling an 80'+ pier would be one would be a stretch

 

[buzzbar]

""I was thinking about this some more, and this dock really should be classified as a separate structure, which will mean there will need to be a means of disconnect and a re-referencing of the ground wire to earth. The AHJ has not historically considered a dock a separate structure, but I don't know how they came to that conclusion.""

In my neck of the woods (Washington State), a residential dock is definitely a separate structure. We always install either a disconnect or a small sub panel at the start of the fixed pier, at the shore line. Sometimes, we'll install the disconnect sort of hidden behind bushes, as long as the pier is within site of the disconnect, there hasn't been any issues. We always install two ground rods as well.

 

[Cavie]

In SW Florida 682 is very much inforced complete with break away and flood disconnect and eqpipotential grounding etc. Doesn't matter what the owner wants.

 

[Smart $]

Seems that 682.3 was changed in the 2011 without regard for the wording in 555.1.

682.3 refers only to 555.13(B), so I'd say it still regards 555.1.

So it amounts to the pier and dock are subject to the requirements of 555.13(B) [the mere installation of a dock supports the requirement condition of boat traffic]. As such portable power cables are included by reference in 555.13(B) to 555.13(A)(2) and (A)(2)(2) thereunder. From there, note especially 555.13(B)(4)(b)...

So whether Type W cable is run all the way back to the house or not, one junction box with permanently installed terminal blocks is required where the feeder connects to the fixed pier and extends to the gangway (assuming it hinges to allow vertical movement of the floating dock).

 

[kwired]

Customer is building a new home and dock (which will consist of a 40' fixed pier with a gazebo on the end, then an 18' gangway down to a 40' floating dock (where a boat will be tied up on either side. Dock will be finished before the home.

They want to have a cable run from a power center down on the end of the floater, up the gangway (underside of course), under the fixed pier, then into a conduit that will run to the house (eventually). They would like to leave enough cable coiled up until the house is ready to receive it. I suggested to the architect a small panel or junction box be installed at the beginning of the fixed pier to make an easy transition to standard wiring going back to the building instead of running the type W cable in a conduit all the way back to the building.

That was a no go. Customer does not want to see any JB, panel, nothing.

I was thinking about this some more, and this dock really should be classified as a separate structure, which will mean there will need to be a means of disconnect and a re-referencing of the ground wire to earth. The AHJ has not historically considered a dock a separate structure, but I don't know how they came to that conclusion.

So, can the customer's desired install be done to NEC standards (I think not, but would love it if someone could show me how it can)? Money is always a consideration, but money is not the driving issue. You need to remember that a lot of these people have more money that they can use, and they want what they want.

Thanks to all that reply.

Am I understanding this correctly that the house will be supplied from the dock?

Regardless of which is supplied by which, I don't see how they are not separate structures unless the house is either on the dock, or if one is effectively an extension of the other then they are all the same structure.