You're not going to believe this.

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charlie b

charlie b

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Location
Lockport, IL
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Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Well, maybe you will believe it. Many of you have probably seen stranger things in your careers. Let me say instead that I am not yet ready to believe it.

I will try to put up a photo or two tomorrow. I am posting this only for entertainment purposes.

We just bought the house we have been renting for 8 months. In several earlier threads, I have talked about several of the house's other "entertaining" electrical problems. Part of the deal for the home sale was that the sellers would provide about half the funding for replacement of the main panel (Zinsco) and resolution of the problems. The contractor (a member of this Forum) is scheduled to do the work next week.

But yesterday I had a plumber replace the hot water tank and remove an old (much larger) tank that was part of a solar-driven water heating system. When the bigger tank was gone, I discovered an old receptacle outlet behind it, about five feet off the floor.

Let me start by saying that this portion of the house, including the solar water heater, was part of an addition to the house that was done about 15 years ago (before the people who sold us the house had bought it themselves). Here is the unbelievable part of the story:
? The outlet was two-prong.
? There was no cover plate.
? The upper half of the receptacle was broken (some plastic had cracked and had fallen off).
? The lower half had one "cord" plugged into it.
? The "cord" was constructed with 12/2 NM with ground.
? The white insulation of the NM was missing for about one inch away from the plug.
? The plug was three prong, but it was plugged into one of those "cheater adapters," so that it could be plugged into a two-prong outlet.
? From the point at which it plugged into the receptacle, the NM was dangled in open air above the solar water heater, and was run into a gap between the wall and the ceiling of the small closet in which the tank had been installed.

Are you ready for this?

? When I unplugged the cord, the things that lost power were two overhead lights ? ? ? two wall-switched overhead lights ? ? ? in the "new addition" section of the house. :eek: :eek:
? The area above the ceiling (in which the lights are mounted) is not readily accessible. I have no idea how the contractor is going to resolve this one.
 
Re: You're not going to believe this.

Charlie here is a kind of a strange one for you. This older gentleman buys a house and calls the power company to get the meter installed and power on. When they come to install the meter they notice that the central air system is already running. Guess what?
 
Re: You're not going to believe this.

Originally posted by tshea: Were these the overheads that have been the subject of other posts?
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No. Different circuit. The earlier "ghost problem" (i.e., lights and receptacles that went off when I turned on a bathroom light, and that came back on on their own) proved to be caused by a loose hot wire in a receptacle. The other lighting and receptacle outlets were downstream of this one.

This circuit provides power to lights and receptacles in the kitchen (not for countertop areas), a den, and the laundry area.
 
Re: You're not going to believe this.

Originally posted by growler:. . . they notice that the central air system is already running. Guess what?
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Previous owners bypassed the meter to supply the AC? Previous owners on their way to prison?
 
Re: You're not going to believe this.

I have to laugh. My daughter bought an old house which has its own set of issues, some amusing, some downright dangerous. Situations like you described in your OP are why we start so many sentances with the words "Why do you suppose they . . ." or "What were they thinking when they did . . ."

Since the original house was pre-electic, you can see fragments of history in the form of bits of knob & tube (all long since inactive) and upgrades and additions over the years. The DPO (d@mned previous owner) "renovated" part of the downstairs 10 years ago. In the process he managed to leave two runs of BX dangling in the basement and crawlspace that were obviously disconnected from something (exposed, stripped ends bent from being connected). Both of them were live!

Aren't old houses fun?
 
Re: You're not going to believe this.

You are right on the first part? The previous owner did bypass the meter? And yes they should have gone to prison or a least paid to have the service rewired. The power company told the old man that he would have to have the service replaced and showed no interest in tracking down the previous owner ( too much trouble ). I cut out the tap a evidence that the splice had been made years earlier and there is no real way to say exactly when. It appears that if you own a property you own all it's problems and liabilities. The strange part is this: If the AC had been left off no one may have ever known ( at least for many years ). The funny part is the homeowner did even notice when the AC came on without the meter ( the lights were still off ).
 
Re: You're not going to believe this.

Originally posted by charlie b:
Previous owners on their way to prison?
Click to expand...
POCO just busted a guy who was "stealing" natural gas for, and this is a conservative estimate, 15 years! The POCO guesses it could be closer to 30 yrs.
POCO is both power and gas here in Wisconsin.
 
Re: You're not going to believe this.

Originally posted by tshea:
Originally posted by charlie b:
Previous owners on their way to prison?
Click to expand...
POCO just busted a guy who was "stealing" natural gas for, and this is a conservative estimate, 15 years! The POCO guesses it could be closer to 30 yrs.
POCO is both power and gas here in Wisconsin.
Click to expand...
How would someone steal natural gas? Wouldn't a pipe coming off the meter *before* the meter be obvious? Or do gas meters turn backwards like electrical meters when installed backwards? (I never did understand why all meters don't have a 1-way movement?)
 
Re: You're not going to believe this.

Reminds me of my buddy's house. I was there a few years back and I noticed a cord plugged into the wall outlet. I then noticed it went around the corner and plugged into another wall outlet. I started to reach for it and he hollered, 'DON'T TOUCH THAT! IT SUPPLIES THE REST OF THE WALL!'

He goes on to tell me that the end I was reaching for was the 'hot' site of the makeshift cord. In other words, if I had unplugged it, the male ends would have been hit. He has already had a roomate lit up by it one afternoon.

After questioning him on wth it was doing there, he tells me power went out to half his living room so he called his dad to help t-shoot it. His dad comes up with this brilliant idea on how to re-supply power. It was like that for several years, until last year, when he finally had me fix it. :roll:

[ March 01, 2006, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: paul ]
 
Re: You're not going to believe this.

Here is the plug:
Here is the wire being routed above the door frame and below the ceiling, and (I presume) from there to a switch and to two overhead lights (mounted in the "false ceiling").
 
Re: You're not going to believe this.

POCO just busted a guy who was "stealing"
Click to expand...
a few years back, we were called to disconnect a set of 12kv transformers at an industrial facility. They had multiple pads fed from a primary meter. When we went to the meter pole we discoverd one set of (3) 500 kva transformers feeding a 1600 amp service has been connected ahead of the meters for some 10-12 years. I was suprised POCO didn't have some metering at the substation that would have shown that kind of "loss".
 
Re: You're not going to believe this.

Lawn Guy, it is often not that difficult to steal natural gas for those so inclined. In locations where meters are indoors, they are often read remotely so you can go pretty long without anyone ever seeing your meter.
 
Re: You're not going to believe this.

Charlie, I'm surprised at you. That's relatively respectable work compared to some of the stuff I've seen. :D

I think most older homes have at least a few Micky Moused, Jimmy rigged items in them.

And just because it's recent work doesn't mean it should be right. Some of the cheesiest work I've seen has been done by licensed contractors. :D
 
Re: You're not going to believe this.

I have a few friends that are gas men and they've seen some pretty ingenius ways to steal gas. The best one was, a guy cut a hole through his basement wall, tunneled under the meter, and tapped the main going to the meter. He then sealed the wall back up. A plumber working on the water heater noticed this and notified the gas company.

A person would think, that the meter reader would be tipped off, when the reading hasn't changed in 6 months and it is 30 below zero.
 
Here is how the problem was resolved, at least on a temporary basis. This closet area is on our "remodel list." The electrician said he could easily reroute the cable within walls at that time.
ProblemSolved.jpg
 
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